Oliver Stone - The Putin Interviews

OS:Even Chechens?

VP:They are originating from 80 countries of the world. Including from Russia.

OS:So is it like Vietnam? Is it going to end, or is there a possibility to damage the group, or do they get more support from abroad because they are regarded as martyrs?

VP:In Vietnam, the United States was fighting the government, whereas in this region, terrorist organizations are trying to fight the government. Someone tries to use these terrorist groups to their ends in order to oust the government of Syria. But to resolve this issue, I am deeply convinced that we have to pull our efforts together with those of the United States. And we also have to combine our efforts with those who entered into a coalition by the United States. Your reaction to what I am saying is so skeptical? But I don’t think there is any other way to solve this problem.

OS:There’s no military solution through bombing—it’s like Robert McNamara’s problem in Vietnam—you cannot achieve this with bombing. [128] Background Information: Robert McNamara was, according to the New York Times “the forceful and cerebral defense secretary who helped lead the nation into the maelstrom of Vietnam and spent the rest of his life wrestling with the war’s moral consequences.” and “the most influential defense secretary of the 20th century. Serving Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson from 1961 to 1968.” See, “Robert S. McNamara, Architect of a Futile War, Dies at 93,” Tim Weiner, (July 6, 2009). Retrieved at: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/us/07mcnamara.html?pagewanted=all

VP:Yes, that’s correct. But to transition to a new stage of the process, I’d like to reiterate, we have to combine the efforts of Russia and the United States. We have to take the initiative. We, for one, have to convince the Syrian government, the United States has to persuade their partners from the coalition. And then together we should arrive at a political settlement.

OS:Can I ask, I imagine you’re surveilling these roads 24/7—these roads north to Turkey, the oil supply. Is this a situation where ISIS drives the trucks at different times, at night—like the Vietnamese responded to the bombings? I mean how do you know if you’re succeeding on the oil issue or whether they are selling the oil through other means?

VP:We are confident in our actions and we see that. We see that both during the night and during the day. We are going to stop now and I’ll show you how we can see that, how evident that is. As to the alternate routes, probably these routes do exist which we do not see. But when we’re talking about commercial-level oil supply, let me assure you we see everything.

OS:So that means you’re damaging ISIS, unless something else is going on. If the oil routes are cut, that means the money is being cut. That means somebody else is helping them if they’re going to go on. Which means Saudi Arabian money.

VP:Let’s not try to indicate any country if we do not have evidence to support our claims. Besides, it might not be about a country, but about some sponsors—rich sponsors with deep pockets who are acting based on some ideological motivations. We don’t know for sure. And let me assure you, our partners in Europe and in the US, it’s also known that we’ve dealt a very strong blow against oil exploitation by ISIS.

OS:Which brings me to the next area—I really would like to discuss Saudi Arabian/Russian relations because it’s been a strange journey.

VP:We’ve done a great deal of work in our relations. In recent days we celebrated the anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic ties between Russia and Saudi Arabia. It was during the 1930s, and the founder of Saudi Arabia—the father of the current king of Saudi Arabia—and back then he came to the Soviet Union. [129] Correction: According to the House of Saud official website, King Abdulaziz, founder of the modern Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, never traveled beyond the Arab world. See, http://houseofsaud.com/saudi-royal-family-history/ We’ve had different periods in the development of our intergovernmental ties but as far as I can see today, despite our controversies with regard to the Syrian settlement, on the whole, we have very good relations which have a chance for further development.

OS:Yes, but can you describe—for example, I know China has made a huge deal with Saudi Arabia involving billions of dollars which is a new development. This is new area for them. You said you wanted to show me something?

[looking at drone attack on cell phone]

VP:Have a look—that’s how our air force operates.

OS:Who’s on the ground?

VP:These are militants. These militants are running with arms—some carry not just machine guns, but they have some serious weaponry at their disposal, which they used to destroy army vehicles. You see, here’s the one carrying it.

OS:These people have fought you before in Afghanistan.

VP:God knows where they fought—these are international terrorists.

OS:So they were surprised you found them?

VP:Yes. By the way, they were coming from the Turkish side of the border.

OS:It’s an anti-recruitment poster for ISIS. You wouldn’t want to join ISIS if you saw this.

VP:You can find this thing on the internet.

OS:Yeah. So, I don’t understand—you’ve always kept good relations with Saudi Arabia. But Saudi Arabia has been mostly involved with the United States and increasingly with Israel.

VP:The world is a difficult place.

OS:But you’re competitive with them, and they are perhaps worried about Russian oil too when they raised their production levels.

VP:You know, there is a certain amount of competition. It cannot but exist. But if we’re talking about such large oil countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia working on the market, there is a need for coordination as well.

OS:Yes, and there was talk of that recently—what happened?

VP:I think that everyone concurs, if production is not raised then at least it can be kept at the same level. Iran has more difficulty joining in this policy because in recent years it has decreased its oil extraction rate. And they tried to get back the traditional markets they were strong in. And that is a legitimate claim they have. And that’s why we have to arrive at a solution here as well.

OS:It’s complicated, but it seems that no one has a better relationship with Iran in recent years than Russia. Just to make my point here, it’s not that you have a great relationship with Iran—you have a good one, no one has a great relationship in this world, but let’s say a good one. You have a relationship with Saudi Arabia. China has a new relationship with Saudi Arabia. Is there a way that these four countries could somehow iron out the Iran/Saudi Arabia issue, the religious issue, as well as the oil issue between them?

VP:As to the oil issue, it’s quite complicated, but I think we can agree on that. And Russia has a role to play. Now, as to the regional controversies that exist, as to the relationship among different religious groups, our role can consist only in creating conditions for contacts between the countries of the region. We prefer to abstain from interfering within these difficult issues that exist between countries. I believe it’s only up to these countries themselves to sort out such issues. But we’re interested in all these controversies being surmounted, because in this region which is so close to us, we want to see stability and sustainable development. They are our partners and we’d like to have stable partners, so that we can work comfortably with one country, with another country, with all countries. And if we work with one country, we don’t want any problems with our relationship with another country. But we are at liberty to make our own choices. Traditionally we have had good relations with all of these countries and we highly appreciate these relations. In practice, we take into account the controversies that exist between these countries and we’ll try to keep away from those controversies.