Oliver Stone - The Putin Interviews

OS:You were saying that you were hitting Turkmen in North Syria, near the border. I don’t know if they are nomadic, but they’ve been there a long time. Turkmen.

VP:The thing is, he never raised this issue. He never said a single word about that.

OS:And the roads that ISIS were using to drive the trucks to Turkey—the oil trucks?

VP:One of these routes was going straight through the territory where the so-called Turkmen live. And that is the best route for supplying oil to Turkey, because it’s the shortest one and it provides access to a Mediterranean port in Turkish territory. I have to say that from the air—up there our drones, the American drones—our pilots see very well. And besides, you know, I think it was Israel’s defense minister and Greece’s defense minister who said publicly that they were seeing that radical groups were supplying oil to the Turkish territory. [118] Claim: “I think it was Israel’s defense minister and Greece’s defense minister publicly said that they were seeing that radical groups were supplying oil to the Turkish territory.” Supporting: See, “Israeli defense minister accuses Turkey of buying IS oil,” BBC (January 26, 2016). Retrieved at: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35415956 I assure you everyone knows that. And I was disenchanted by the US statement that they didn’t know anything about that.

OS:And you confronted Erdogan with this information, correct?

VP:No, I didn’t tell him that.

OS:You didn’t tell him why?

VP:Do you think I had to do that? Why on earth? This is not his country. We were cooperating with the legitimate Syrian authorities, with the Syrian armed forces, combating radical groups. But if that was important to Erdogan, then he should have at least mentioned that. But he didn’t.

OS:Could you have said, in a diplomatic way, Mr. President, we have information, good information, that the oil is coming into certain places in Turkey. And we believe that there are elements in Turkey on the border—smugglers who are cooperating with ISIS and bringing the oil in, and we are very concerned about that.

VP:Well, it’s so pleasant to talk to you. You just listen—during the G20 summit, when the journalists left the room, I took out photos just like that—of this size—and from my place where I was sitting, I showed those photos to everyone. I showed it to my counterparts. I showed them the route that I mentioned earlier. And we have shown those photos to our American counterparts. And the United States leads the coalition fighting ISIS. And we simply showed our counterparts these photographs. Everyone knew about everything. So trying to open a door which is already open is simply senseless. It’s something that is absolutely evident. So it’s not about one single truck—there are thousands of trucks going through that route. It looks as if it were a living pipeline.

OS:Who from the United States was in that room?

VP:Well, you’re asking things which probably shouldn’t be made public. We showed those photographs to our partners. They saw those photos. And to be honest they didn’t have any doubts about that, I assure you. American pilots and everything.

OS:So when John Kerry was saying the other day you were “targeting legitimate opposition groups,” what did he mean? [119] Background Information: It’s true as Oliver Stone claims that John Kerry accused Russia of “targeting legitimate opposition groups,” See, “John Kerry condemns Russia’s ‘repeated aggression’ in Syria and Ukraine” The Guardian (February 13, 2016). Retrieved at: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/13/john-kerry-condemns-russias-repeated-aggression-in-syria-and-ukraine

VP:Apparently he is not talking about those oil tracks. Well he is not flying over Syria himself now is he? But he’s certain to have information from his pilots. But probably he was not talking about those cavalcades carrying oil. He must have been talking about something else—some other facilities. But our partners do not tell us what exactly they are talking about. On many occasions we have asked them to provide us with information where we should hit and where we shouldn’t and they don’t give that information to us. And that’s why, and I’m deeply convinced, we have to foster a very good mechanism for cooperation. What we’re trying to do is to avoid using such things for propaganda purposes. We understand that when hostilities are ongoing, tragedies do occur. As in Kunduz where American planes hit a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders. [120] Claim: “ As in Kunduz where American planes hit a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders.” Supporting: See, “US military struggles to explain how it wound up bombing Doctors Without Borders hospital,” Thomas Gibbons-Neff, Washington Post (October 5, 2015). Retrieved at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/05/afghan-forces-requested-airstrike-that-hit-hospital-in-kunduz/ Certainly our media have talked about that to their audiences. When you can actually see it and watch it as you say it. But we didn’t speculate on this tragedy. Right now we know that the American Air Force has hit Libya, Serbian diplomats have been taken captive or killed—certainly a tragedy.

OS:The Chinese embassy in Belgrade. [121] Claim: Oliver Stone points out that the Chinese embassy was bombed by the West. Supporting: See, “Nato bombed Chinese embassy deliberately,” John Sweeney, Jens Holsoe and Ed Vulliamy, The Guardian (October 16, 1999). Retrieved at: https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/balkans

VP:But that was a long time ago. This tragedy is certainly a tragedy, but it’s an accident and we’re not going to use it for propaganda purposes. When we’re talking about fighting radical Islamic extremists, we have to search for something that brings us together. And we should abstain from using this or that thing.

OS:Do Russian pilots make mistakes in their bombing raids?

VP:I do not have this information. I’ve never heard or seen that in the reports that I have. We are not simply hitting anywhere recklessly. We’re not doing these strikes recklessly. We are coordinating our actions with the Syrian armed forces and with their intelligence services. At the preliminary stage, we did a very comprehensive study of the facilities that were hit. It doesn’t take five minutes. It takes several days if not weeks. And we see for sure what’s going on there. Anything’s possible, but I do not have any good information that our pilots have made a mistake, or that some tragedy has occurred. I do not have any information that would support this claim.

OS:So what happened—out of the blue one day, your Russian SU40 was hit, was shot down by a Turkish F-16? How did that go down?

VP:It was an SU24—a bomber of the previous generation. And some defense systems could have been installed in this bomber, but it didn’t carry any at that moment. And we didn’t protect it using our jet fighters. The only thing that did—it was flying at a certain altitude so as to prevent it from being hit by a stinger. And no one could imagine that a Turkish jet fighter would strike our bomber. But the most terrible thing that happened was that when those pilots were going down using their parachutes, they were shot at. [122] Claim: Oliver Stone asks about a Russian SU40 plane that was shot down by a Turkish F-16. Putin corrects him that it was a Russian SU24 that was shot down, but also says that the pilots were shot at. Supporting: See, “Turkey shooting down plane was ‘planned provocation’ says Russia, as rescued pilot claims he had no warning – latest,” Isabelle Fraser and Raziye Akkoc, The Telegraph (November 26, 2015). Retrieved at: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12015465/Turkey-shoots-down-Russia-jet-live.html In accordance with international law, it qualifies as a war crime. And those who were shooting at our pilots we know are at large in Turkey, because they gave interviews. Those are not Turkmen, those are Turkish citizens and they talked about the crimes they have perpetrated.