Oliver Stone - The Putin Interviews

OS:Well, the shoot-down—I gather that there’s NATO oversight over this whole area, so many people have said the Americans knew about it, or NATO knew about it before.

VP:We have an agreement with our American counterparts. As with a country which is leading an antiterrorist coalition, twice a day we exchange information. And before our planes took to the air, we had informed the American military. [123] Background Information: Russia did indeed inform the American military before their planes took to the air. See, “US Agrees With Russia on Rules in Syrian Sky,” Neil MacFarquhar, the New York Times (October 20, 2015). Retrieved at: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/21/world/middleeast/us-and-russia-agree-to-regulate-all-flights-over-syria.html And they knew where our pilots were going to work. And they knew the area and the projected route those airplanes were going to take.

OS:Any conclusions on your part?

VP:What are the conclusions? The conclusions are very simple—you can use formal logic.

We informed and our airplane was shot down. Then two scenarios are possible. Either this information was transferred to the Turkish side and they performed a strike, or this information was not transferred to the Turkish side. Or the Americans transferred this information to the Turkish side, but they didn’t know that the Turks were going to go that far. So I think these are the main three scenarios.

OS:Did you discuss it later either with Erdogan or Obama?

VP:I don’t remember how our dialogue was developing on that matter with the United States, but as for the Turkish leadership we didn’t discuss anything. Because instead of making a formal apology, instead of stating that they were willing to compensate us, instead of providing support to the families of those pilots who were killed, the Turkish leadership has publicly said that they were going to continue to act in that manner. And then they dashed to Brussels, to the NATO headquarters asking for protection, which in my view, is humiliating to Turkey. They were the ones who made this mess and then they run to find protection somewhere else. No other statement, apart from those that are just mentioned, ever came from the Turkish leadership. Once Turkey’s prime minister said that it was not the president who gave the order, but he. And afterwards, we heard that apparently the Turkish side had not known that it was a Russian airplane. Incidentally, if American partners have to receive information from us about the area in which our air force is going to operate and did not transfer this information to the other side, then question arises, how good are they at heading this coalition and who rules whom in that coalition?

OS:So, two times a day you give information to NATO about your missions in Syria.

VP:Not to NATO—to the US military, and they do the same to us.

OS:And you get the same information?

VP:Yes, information from the United States about where their forces are working.

OS:To prevent a major catastrophe?

VP:To prevent incidents in the airspace.

OS:This is a dangerous situation.

VP:Yes, certainly, in one airspace there are airplanes of a number of countries at once. It can always have some consequences. By the way, we are operating there at the invitation of the Syrian government—so, legitimately. [124] Claim: Putin says that Russia is operating in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government and thus, legitimately. Supporting: “Russia Begins Airstrikes In Syria After Assad’s Request,” Bill Chappell, NPR (September 30, 2015). Retrieved at: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/30/444679327/russia-begins-conducting-airstrikes-in-syria-at-assads-request And that signifies that we’re acting in accordance with international law in the United Nations Charter, whereas all the other military forces can only fly there in accordance with the existing national law—either based on a decision of the United Nations Security Council or at the invitation of the government of the country.

OS:So they’re illegal?

VP:Yes, because it’s evident. But understanding that, we still say that we have a joint objective in fighting international terrorism and we’re willing to cooperate with you.

OS:So we have French airplanes, we have British fighters, we have Turkish fighters. And now we have Saudi Arabian, correct?

VP:So far, Saudi Arabia is not operating there. But there are so many airplanes there, including Australia. And Canada.

OS:Really? What about Iran?

VP:No, the Iranians are not flying there.

OS:So it’s a pretty hot airspace, I’d say.

VP:I don’t think so. Because you know, on average, our pilots make 70 to 120 strikes, whereas the international coalition—headed by the United States—makes two to three to five airstrikes per day. [125] Claim: Putin cites 70 to 120 airstrikes per day by Russian planes in Syria, compared to only three to five per day by the international coalition led by the United States. The numbers vary over time, but appear to be in the ballpark. See, “Russia Is Launching Twice as Many Airstrikes as the US in Syria” David Axe,” The Daily Beast (February 16, 2016). Retrieved at: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/23/russia-is-launching-twice-as-many-airstrikes-as-the-u-s-in-syria

OS:You’re making 70 to 120 airstrikes per day? Seven days a week?

VP:Yes. Every day.

OS:Wow. So there must be some progress I would think. We’re not going to have a Vietnam-type situation here, are we?

VP:There is progress. Everyone is seeing this progress. And I think everyone sees that right now. Certainly, still vast territories are controlled by ISIS, but at lot of territory has already been liberated from ISIS. And this is not just some territory, some desert—these are vital territories for Syria. But it’s not just about that. The thing is, many groups, many tribes in Syria, including the Sunni tribes, have told us that they are willing to cooperate with us and to fight ISIS. And we have established contacts with them. We have informed President Assad about that and the Syrian military leadership. We’ve told them that we’re going to support those Sunni groups that are willing to fight ISIS and the al-Nusra Front. In principle, the military of Syria and the Syrian President agree with that. These Sunni groups, supported by our planes, are fighting ISIS and the Al-Nusra Front on their own.

OS:Well, how big are these groups? I mean, it seems to me if you’re striking 70 times 7 or 120 times per day at least two months—at 60 days we’re down to about 2,000 strikes. [126] Correction: 120 times per day for 60 days is 7,200 airstrikes. I mean, how big is ISIS? How big is this thing? What are they doing for their oil?

VP:The projected number of terrorists participating in ISIS is estimated at 80,000 people. 30,000 of them are foreign mercenaries from 80 countries of the world. [127] Claim: “The projected number of terrorists participating in ISIS is estimated at 80,000. 30,000 of them are foreign mercenaries from 80 countries of the world.” The estimated number of ISIS terrorists range according to source, from 20-30,000, and from 80-100,000. As per, Putin’s estimate, see, “Russian Intel: ISIS Has 80,000 Jihadis in Iraq and Syria,” Jordan Schachtel, Breitbart (November 11, 2015). Retrieved at: http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/11/russian-intel-isis-80000-jihadis-iraq-syria/ Regarding foreign mercenaries in ISIS, see: “Thousands Enter Syria to Join ISIS Despite Global Efforts,” Eric Schmitt, Somini Sengupta, September 26, 2015. Retrieved at: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/world/middleeast/thousands-enter-syria-to-join-isis-despite-global-efforts.html?_r=0