Oliver Stone - The Putin Interviews

OS:Well, how deep is this Saudi-Russian relationship? I always wondered, just looking at the chess board with the United States and Saudi Arabia being so tight, and I don’t know who runs who. Sometimes Americans say the Saudi Arabians tell the Americans what to do in the Middle East. I would wonder if Saudi Arabia’s well aware of the economic sanctions against Russia and the problems in Russia. They also have their own problems, true, economically, but they might be inspired or motivated by the United States to keep going and to make it harder and harder for the Russian economy, because they know that Russia helps Iran.

VP:We try to stay away from relations between other countries. The United States tries to democratize everyone else. And I don’t think that the monarchies of the Persian Gulf like that very much. To be honest, if I were in their place, I would think about what the United States is going to do next. And I think they are thinking about that already. Indeed, if you are consistent about your course towards democratization, so you understand what your next step is going to be after Syria, after Libya, after Egypt… I think it would be best to take into account the traditions, the history, the religious particularities of these countries. It’s very difficult to put into place structures of government that work in one place and transfer them to another region. I think it’s best to treat with great respect what is existing. And even if you want to try to support some processes you have to do it very gently, not try to force something from outside on another country.

OS:Well, you know, some people say that the solution to the Syrian problem is a division of Syria into four or five parts. The question is: who are the parts?

VP:There are many variants and scenarios, but we have always assumed there is a need to preserve the territorial integrity of Syria. Because we have to think not just about pacifying the region at this very moment, we have to take the next step and look further into the future. What happens if we divide Syria? Wouldn’t it lead to a permanent confrontation between these parts that have been divided. So we have to be very cautious and we have to do our best so that all warring parties—terrorist organizations excluded—might arrive at a platform to work together.

OS:Did the United States sanctions on Iran contribute to their decision to make a deal on nuclear arms with Kerry?

VP:You often ask me questions which are not within my purview.

OS:Well that’s true.

VP:Our American friends think that these sanctions have played a certain role. The Iranians say that they never planned a nuclear military program. The question was about alleviating the concerns of the international community with regard to this matter. And so step by step it was done. All the while, the Iranians did get what they wanted, the right to conduct nuclear research. And second, they’ve got the right to pursue a peaceful nuclear program, including a certain volume of enriched uranium. Everyone seems to be happy with the results.

OS:So your answer is more ambivalent. You’re saying you’re not sure that they worked—that sanctions don’t work.

VP:Well, the Iranians themselves say that these sanctions have stimulated them to take a number of measures to develop certain industries. Some elements related to these restrictions were probably quite a burden to them. And certainly they wanted the sanctions to end.

OS:How close were we to war in Syria when you negotiated with Assad and the Americans to take chemical weapons out of Syria?

VP:I think we were quite close. There was a great danger of a war erupting and I believe that back then President Obama made the right decision. And he and I managed to agree on coordinated actions. [130] Claim: “There was a great danger of a war erupting and I believe that back then President Obama made the right decision. And he and I managed to agree on coordinated actions” President Obama was widely criticized for making the decision not to attack Syria after the nerve agent sarin was used on a Damascus suburb. However, there was also support for the president showing restraint. See, “When Putin Bailed Out Obama,” former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, Consortium News (August 31, 2016). Retrieved at: https://consortiumnews.com/2016/08/31/when-putin-bailed-out-obama/ As a matter of fact, he distinguished himself as a leader—as the Americans like to say—and thanks to these concerted actions we’ve managed to avoid an escalation of the conflict.

OS:A lot of American congressmen were leaning towards enforcing the red line, but it seemed like many people think that they would have said no, they would have voted “no.” They would have voted “no” to Obama’s desire to enter this Syrian conflict. And they say that if you had not intervened, it would have been an interesting test of the American will to fight a war or not in Syria.

VP:That’s quite natural. Because there are so many people and so many opinions. But only one person has the responsibility to make the decision. The most terrible thing is to talk, to discuss ad infinitum without making the final decision.

OS:It seems that many congressmen thought that at that point, when you re-entered the world scene and saved his bacon that that their eyes fell on you and you were a target for them after that—the neoconservatives.

VP:Probably. Well, let them have their fun.

OS:Well, you came close, and now you’re close again, so it seems to be a very tense presidency you have.

VP:And when was it simple? Times are always difficult. We simply have to thank God for giving us an opportunity to serve our country.

OS:Well you’ve had a lot of opportunities and you’ve done an incredible job of maintaining your cool under this enormous pressure. And I think many—maybe millions of people—owe their lives, without knowing it, to your intervention.

VP:Probably.

OS:And now because you’re pissed off at Turkey you have sanctions on Turkey. [131] Background Information: See, “Russia Expands Sanctions Against Turkey After Downing of Jet,” Andrew E. Kramer, the New York Times (December 30, 2015). Retrieved at: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/31/world/europe/russia-putin-turkey-sanctions.html So you have doubles sanctions—you have sanctions against Turkey and the US has sanctions against you. [132] Background Information: “So you have double sanctions—you have sanctions against Turkey and the US sanctions against you.” See, “US Imposes Sanctions Over Russia’s Intervention in Ukraine,” Julie Hirshchfeld Davis, the New York Times (December 22, 2015). Retrieved at: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/23/world/europe/us-russia-ukraine-sanctions.html I thought you didn’t believe in sanctions.

VP:You know, I’ve already told you, we used to have not just a partner relationship with Turkey, we were friendly countries. We had a visa-free border. But at the same time on many we brought to the attention of our Turkish partners the fact that we were seeing the arrival of many radical elements from Russia into Turkey. We saw those radical elements receive support, receive protection. And afterwards, using visa-free programs, using Turkish passports, radicals entered Russian territory and disappeared. It turned out that the Turkish side is acting like that not just with respect to Russia but also with respect to a number of other countries. And my colleagues, my counterparts, have told me about that—I’m not going to name these countries. Turkey has given us a wonderful reason to add an additional layers of protection to our industries—especially to our agriculture. And we have all the grounds to do that. I refer in particular to ensuring our national security. But at the same time I’d like to tell you that we haven’t broken any existing contract with Turkey. These contracts are restricted in volume. But this is not something we are doing. This is something economic players are doing—I mean Russian companies.