President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Mr. Dulles. Did anything transpire on that occasion, when you were taking up Marina's and your brother's belongings?

Mr. Oswald. Perhaps, sir, the only thing that I recall that would perhaps be of some type of significance was that Mr. Paine, at the approximate time we were ready to depart from his home, called me over to the side and stated that he would like to know where Marina was staying, and they would like to be in contact with her. And my comment to him was that Marina was leaving the area, and that she was to be well taken care of. And at that time we left.

Mr. Dulles. Do you know whether the Paines have been in touch with Marina since that particular time, when you left the Paine's home?

Mr. Oswald. To my knowledge, sir, they have not in person been in contact with Marina Oswald. However, it is my understanding from Mr. Jim Martin and Mrs. Marina Oswald that Mrs. Paine has written a number of letters to Mrs. Marina Oswald during her stay at the Martin's home in Dallas, Tex.

Mr. Dulles. Do you know the content of those letters?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I do not.

Mr. Dulles. Do you know whether Marina still has them in her possession?

Mr. Oswald. I would be of the opinion that she does, sir. And the only comment she had made to me directly, or Mr. Martin perhaps made to me, as to the contents of the letters was that they wanted to talk with Marina, they wanted to be in contact with Marina in person.

Mr. Dulles. Thank you.

Mr. Jenner. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Dulles. Back on the record.

Mr. Jenner. Mr. Oswald, during all of the time that your brother and your sister-in-law Marina resided in Fort Worth, Tex., were you aware of any occasion when your sister resided or visited with, and lived with, anyone else other than your brother Lee in their home?

Mr. Oswald. Sir, if I may correct you—you referred to her as my sister.

Mr. Jenner. I meant sister-in-law.

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I was not acquainted at any time that she did.

Mr. Jenner. Do you have any knowledge or acquaintance with whether Marina did any shopping on her own?

Mr. Oswald. During the period that they were in Fort Worth, Tex., sir?

Mr. Jenner. Yes.

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, I am acquainted.

Mr. Jenner. Would you relate your knowledge in that respect?

Mr. Oswald. A conversation with my wife on return home from work one afternoon, approximately the latter part of June 1962—correction, sir.

It was not a conversation with my wife—it was a conversation with my mother, at approximately the latter part of August 1962, or the first part of October 1962. And, to the best of my recollection, the conversation was to the effect that Lee Harvey Oswald had gone downtown in Fort Worth, Tex., looking for a job, and that Marina wanted to find Lee while he was downtown, and even though reportedly from my mother that she insisted that she not leave the house, she did, carrying the baby, June Lee Oswald with her, and walked approximately 15 or 16 blocks into downtown Fort Worth.

It is my understanding that she became lost or needed assistance in her directions, in her attempt either to find Lee Harvey Oswald or return home, that she asked the assistance of a police officer, and that apparently she did not have any other difficulty.

It is my understanding at that time that she did purchase either some baby clothes or perhaps some clothes for herself.

Mr. Jenner. And this was all related to you by your mother?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. And does that exhaust your fund of knowledge as to any shopping trips or visiting and shopping at a local shopping center or stores by Marina?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir—prior to November 1963.

Mr. Jenner. November 22, 1963?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. Dulles. The diary, or memorandum, has considerable information, you may recall, with purchases that were made by others for Marina and the child, as I recall.

Mr. Jenner. That was afterward.

Mr. Dulles. That was afterward?

Mr. Oswald. If I may, sir, I do recall another instance.

In the presence of myself, Lee Harvey Oswald and Mrs. Marina Oswald and the baby June Lee Oswald, approximately the middle of June 1963—the occasion was a grocery shopping for my family and for——

Mr. Jenner. June of 1963?

Mr. Oswald. Thank you, sir. June of 1962. And this was to my knowledge——

Mr. Jenner. Your statement 1963 was a slip of the tongue?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

And there was, to my knowledge, at that time the first occasion that Mrs. Marina Oswald had ever been in a supermarket of the nature that is found in the United States.

Mr. Jenner. Tell us about the occasion.

Mr. Oswald. I remember the occasion quite vividly. If you ever have the opportunity, sir, to take a person of that nature into a supermarket or an average size store, and watch the expression on their face, as to the magnitude of the food and the variety of the food that was in her presence—and I believe for the first time to any extent—it was quite a pleasant observation, I might add, sir. She was quite overwhelmed.

Mr. Jenner. Surprised and overwhelmed?

Mr. Oswald. Surprised——

Mr. Dulles. There is nothing like it in Minsk.

Mr. Oswald. I feel certain, sir, there is not.

Mr. Jenner. Did you get the impression that her reaction was such to indicate that at least she had never seen anything of this nature?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I was of the exact opinion she had not seen anything anywhere comparable to that in the nature of a food store.

Mr. Jenner. Now, did you get the impression this was a spontaneous reaction on her part?

Mr. Oswald. Most certainly it was, sir.

Mr. Jenner. She was not putting on an act to impress you and Lee and anyone accompanying you?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Jenner. This is of interest, Mr. Chairman, particularly the spontaneity.

Mr. Dulles. Was that in Dallas or Fort Worth?

Mr. Oswald. This was in Fort Worth, Tex.

Mr. Jenner. This is while they were living with you, Mr. Oswald?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. How did this arise? Did you just decide—was this part of showing her Fort Worth, or was it developed from desiring to go to the supermarket to purchase something, or was it a combination of both?

Mr Oswald. Sir, I believe it was a combination of both.

If I might add, the store that I went into was not the store that I usually purchased groceries from.

Mr. Jenner. You were leading—you were doing the leading of this party?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. And, in addition to yourself and Marina, who was present?

Mr. Oswald. Only the baby, June Lee Oswald.

Mr. Jenner. Just the two of you going, and you were showing her around the town?

Mr. Oswald. And Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. Dulles. And you made some purchases?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; we did. And she made some purchases. Or she selected some items.

Mr. Dulles. Can you tell us whether Marina had from time to time a certain amount of money for her own disposition? Did your brother Lee leave her money?

Mr. Oswald. Not to my knowledge that he did, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Would it be your impression that he did not?

Mr. Oswald. It would be my impression that he did not.

Mr. Jenner. I would appreciate it if you would proceed to tell about your taking her around on this particular day, and her reactions, perhaps, to other things that you showed her in Fort Worth at this early stage of her being in this country.

Mr. Oswald. Her reactions in the supermarket, sir, as I have testified, I believe to be completely spontaneous, and certainly from all appearances it was entirely new to her. I do recall we started off in the section of the store—do you want me to name the store, sir?