President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Does that refresh your recollection as to where we were?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; it does.

Mr. Dulles. And I would like to add, as I understand it, it was indicated to you by your brother that this was to be on a financial basis—that is, she was in effect giving Russian lessons to Paul Gregory, and would be paid for it.

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Was any amount of money mentioned? It was by the hour, I think you said.

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; a figure was mentioned. However, I do not recall the exact figure. I could perhaps to the best of my ability and remembrance of the occasion place the figure at over $3 an hour.

I do not recall any further conversation that I had with Marina and Lee Oswald on that occasion.

I did leave their residence before the reported time that Mr. Gregory was due to arrive.

Mr. Jenner. Did anything occur that evening, in the course of that interchange and conversation, that had a bearing upon, or led you to believe or have the impression, that your brother Lee was seeking to break off or lessen relations on his part and Marina's part with their Russian friends?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; there was not.

Mr. Jenner. All right, proceed.

Mr. Dulles. Could I ask one question there?

Did your brother indicate whether these lessons were being given in his and Marina's home, or whether they were to be given at the Gregory home?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir. It was implied if not stated to me at that time that the lesson was to be given going around Fort Worth, Tex.

Mr. Jenner. This particular occasion?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Did you get any impression, Mr. Oswald, as to the course of procedure in that respect for any future occasions, or those that had occurred in the past, because I believe you indicated that your impression was that this was not arising for the first time that evening.

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I do not recall anything being stated at that time or any other time where these lessons were to be given other than my impression of that one night that it was to be given as they drove around Fort Worth, Tex.

Mr. Jenner. Am I correct in my impression of your testimony that your impression in turn was that this relationship had existed at least somewhat before this occasion?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Then would you proceed to the next circumstance or event which led you eventually to the conclusion or impression that your brother was seeking to lessen the relations between themselves, he and Marina, and their Russian friends?

Mr. Oswald. To the contrary, sir, that was the only time that I recall that any people of Russian descent or interested in the Russian language was mentioned in my presence, and I base my opinion on that particular incident that they were not at the time seeking to lessen their relationship within this group of people when they did reside at the Mercedes Street address in Fort Worth, Tex.

Mr. Jenner. I see.

I had been under the impression, Mr. Oswald, from your first immediate response to Mr. Dulles' question on this subject, that you had stated or at least indicated—I had that impression—that you had noted somewhere along a point of time while they were on Mercedes Street, some effort on the part of your brother to lessen the intensity at least of the degree of intercourse between themselves, that is he and Marina, and their friends of Russian derivation. Am I correct in that?

Mr. Oswald. I believe you are incorrect in that, sir. I believe I stated to Mr. Dulles that to the contrary at that particular time they were not attempting to lessen their relations with this group of persons. And I cited the incident of that night as they awaited on the arrival of Mr. Paul Gregory as an example that they were still in contact at least with that member of Mr. Gregory's family, if not Mr. Gregory.

Mr. Jenner. I see.

Mr. Dulles. It may well have been that the testimony that we previously had related to a subsequent period.

Mr. Jenner. That may well be.

I was not here when Marina testified.

It does lead me, Mr. Chairman, however, to make some further inquiries on this subject.

Mr. Dulles. All right.

Mr. Jenner. How old, in your judgment, if you have an impression, was Mr. Paul Gregory?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir. I would place his age at that time approximately 20 or 21 years of age.

Mr. Jenner. And I believe you testified last evening that you had met Paul Gregory.

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Did you gain any impression that evening that prior contacts between Paul Gregory and your brother and sister-in-law in this area had embraced other occasions when they, meaning Marina and Paul Gregory, had driven about the city of Fort Worth?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I was of that opinion—whether it was stated or implied, at that time.

Mr. Jenner. Could you state for us a little more in detail any remark that led to that conclusion?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I do not recall any specific remark that was made at that time. But I was, as I am now, of the opinion that there were or had been prior interviews or lessons between Marina Oswald and Lee Harvey Oswald and Mr. Paul Gregory.

Mr. Jenner. That is prior occasions when this method of conducting a lesson had been pursued—that is, just driving about the city of Fort Worth?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Now, did there occur subsequently any further occasions in which the conducting of lessons by Marina with or for Paul Gregory arose?

Mr. Oswald. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Up to the time that they had left Fort Worth, which, as I recall, was the day after Thanksgiving, 1962, did there come to your attention, either through your brother or Marina or some other source, the undertaking by Marina to give or participate in lessons to persons other than Paul Gregory, the teaching or increasing the facility of use of the Russian language on the part of someone else?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir. And if I may, sir, to understand the question fully—you referred to the day after Thanksgiving, 1962, as the day that they had left Fort Worth, Tex. They had given up their residence on Mercedes Street in the early part of October 1962, and moved to Dallas, Tex., address unknown to me. On the occasion referred to on Thanksgiving 1962, it was my understanding that they returned to Dallas when they departed from my home in Fort Worth, Tex.

Mr. Jenner. You are absolutely correct.

I did misstate your testimony. But up until the time they did leave, were there any further occasions on which you received the impression, at least, that Marina had been engaged, either for compensation or voluntarily in teaching conversational Russian or increasing the facility or use of the Russian language by someone else?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I am not acquainted with any other persons that perhaps she had pursued this line of employment with, or volunteered to instruct anybody else in the use of the Russian language.

Mr. Jenner. Does that exhaust this subject, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. Dulles. Yes. You may proceed.

Mr. Jenner. At any time before Marina and Lee left Fort Worth to go to Dallas, did you become aware of her, at least from time to time, living with others in the city of Fort Worth—that is, not living with your brother in their home?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I was not aware of that.

Mr. Jenner. Mr. Oswald; I anticipate that a series of names which I am about to put to you would in large part be strange to you, but one of the other divisions of the investigation staff desires me to inquire whether any of these names are familiar to you.

Prior to November 22, 1963, did you or your brother, Lee, or any member of the Oswald family—that would include your brother John and your mother—as far as you know hear of any of the following persons: