Oliver Stone - The Putin Interviews

VP:You see, the thing is, these ideas are still alive. And when those problems in the Caucasus and Chechnya emerged, unfortunately the Americans supported those processes. [23] Claim: “And when those problems in the Caucasus and Chechnya emerged, unfortunately the Americans supported those processes.” Supporting: See, “Chechen Terrorists and the Neocons,” former FBI agent Coleen Rowley, Consortium News (April 19, 2013). Retrieved at: https://consortiumnews.com/2013/04/19/chechen-terrorists-and-the-neocons/ Not the official forces, not the democratic government of Yeltsin. They didn’t support that. Even though we counted on American support. We assumed that the Cold War was over, that we had transparent relations with the United States, with the whole world, and we certainly counted on support. But instead we witnessed the American intelligence services support terrorists. And even when we confirmed that, when we demonstrated that Al Qaeda fighters were fighting in the Caucasus, we still saw the intelligence services of the United States continue to support these fighters. There was one episode, I told President Bush about that, and he said, “Do you have any concrete data who specifically does what specifically?” And I told him “Yes, I do have such data,” and I showed him, and I even named those persons of the American intelligence services who were working in the Caucasus, including in Baku. And those officers didn’t just provide some general political support—they also provided technical support, they helped transfer fighters from one place to another. And the reaction of the American president was the right one—very negative. He said, “I’ll sort this all out.” There was no response, by the way. And weeks had passed—

OS:What year was this?

VP:2005 or 2004. Some time had passed and we received a response from the American intelligence services. The response was quite peculiar. They wrote to us: “We support all the political forces, including the opposition forces, and we’re going to continue to do that.”

OS:They sent a letter to you in 2005?

VP:Yes, the CIA sent us a letter. [24] Background Information: The letter from the CIA to Putin about the former’s possible support for rebels in Chechnya is referenced in the article: “Chechnya, the CIA and Terrorism,” Michael S. Rozeff, Russia Insider (April 28, 2015). Retrieved at: http://russia-insider.com/en/chechnya-cia-and-terrorism/6179 They sent this letter to their counterparts in Moscow. And to be honest, I was much surprised—especially after my conversation with the American president.

OS:Did you speak to him after that?

VP:Yes, certainly. You know, politics is a strange area. I’m quite confident that President Bush has always been a person with integrity. But all this bureaucracy, which still clings to the ideas that you’ve talked about—namely the possibility to use fundamentalism to destabilize the situation. Well, these ideas are still alive. And despite the fact that the situation has changed radically in Russia itself—the Soviet Union ceased to exist. I’m going to say something very important, I believe. We are now quite confident—we had a very confident opinion back then. But our American partners were talking about the need to cooperate, including in fighting terrorism, but in reality they were using those terrorists in order to destabilize the internal political situation in Russia. And frankly speaking, we were much disappointed.

OS:I suppose you want us to go over to the Palace.

VP:Yes, it will be easier there.

OS:Two big dreams.

VP:You were flying in one?

OS:Yes, I try to remember the dreams. I wake up, I write them down, it’s a habit I’ve gotten into.

VP:Very interesting.

OS:Yeah, it’s important. That’s why I was surprised when you said you didn’t pay attention to dreams or didn’t remember them.

VP:Sometimes I remember my dreams but for a very short time and then I forget.

OS:I make an effort to get up in the middle of the night to remember them, because I know I’m going to forget them when I go back to sleep.

VP:And where do you live most of the time?

OS:Between New York and Los Angeles. And I travel a lot.

VP:Do you have an apartment or house, an apartment in New York and a house in Los Angeles?

OS:I have places in both. But I spent the last six months in Munich.

OS:Okay. So you’re involved in the Afghanistan war and the cooperation with the United States. They’re in Central Asia now. You know more and more about their support of terrorism—Islamic terrorism—against the Soviet Union. But now they are fighting terrorism and they’re looking for bin Laden and putting a huge amount of money into hunting Al Qaeda—although I’m told that Al Qaeda forces in Afghanistan reached as low a level as 100 fighters. There were only 100 Al Qaeda left when we were still fighting there. [25] Background Information: “In Afghanistan, Taliban surpasses al-Qaeda,” Joshua Partlow, Washington Post (Nov. 11, 2009). Retrieved at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/10/AR2009111019644.html

VP:Regrettably, the general principle in some countries is to support people who have extreme views in order to get their help fighting people who are seemingly their enemies. The thing is, the greatest problem is, distinguishing between these people is impossible. Because these people also evolve and change. They conform to conditions and it’s impossible to understand who is using whom—whether the intelligence services of the United States is using Islamic radicals. The radicals understand that the intelligence services want to use them to fight for their own interests and they get money, they get support, they get arms, and then they deal a heavy blow to their benefactors. Or they transfer part of their money, weapons or equipment to other armed units and are involved in activities which are not welcomed by the benefactors or those who support this or that country’s unit. The same is happening with ISIS right now. Exactly the same thing. When there is this talk about the need to support the opposition in Syria—the normal opposition, they are given money, they are given weapons, and then it turns out that some of them defected to ISIS. And our partners recognize that. But it’s a systemic mistake which is repeated always. This is the same thing which happened in Afghanistan in the 1980s. And right now it’s happening in the Middle East.

OS:I know we discussed it before, but please tell me again whether you believe the United States was involved in any way with supporting the Chechens in the first or second war.

VP:Yes. We’re 100 percent sure that we have objective proof of that. [26] Claim: “ OS: Do you have any belief that the United States was involved in any way supporting the Chechens in the first or second war? VP: Yes. We’re 100 percent sure that we have objective proof of that.” Supporting: See, “Chechen Terrorists and the Neocons,” Ibid. You see you don’t have to be a great analyst to see that the United States supported financially, provided information, supported them politically. They supported the separatists and terrorists in the Northern Caucasus. And when we’re asking our partners, “Why do you receive them at the official level?” they responded, “We’re not doing that at a high level—it’s just a technical level—the level of experts.” But that was just ridiculous. We were seeing that they were granting them support. Instead of trying to pull forces together to fight a common threat, someone is often trying to use the situation to their own advantage and short term interests. But in the end, they’re the ones who get damaged by those people they support. That is what happened in Libya when the US ambassador perished.