David Peace - Red or Dead

Harold Wilson shook his head. And Harold Wilson said, I think, well, he is in the First Division, isn’t he?

Yes, said Bill Shankly. Yes.

And I know his poetry less than my wife does. Though I’ve never known it, when I’ve been speaking in Scotland, that somebody on the platform hasn’t quoted something. Either something familiar or something I didn’t know. The Secretary of State for Scotland, who is a great Burns Night speaker, he can recite yards of it at a time. Most Scotsmen can, I think …

He, said Bill Shankly, in actual fact, was one of the early people on socialism …

Harold Wilson said, He was really, yes.

Possibly the first one was Jesus Christ, of course, said Bill Shankly. But after that, Burns was a real socialist. And one of the instigators of socialism, I think. Of course, he was a great character as well, Robert Burns.

Harold Wilson nodded again. And Harold Wilson said, Yes, he was. I haven’t read as much about him as I should. But as a socialist, if one uses this phrase, and he was an early one as you say, it was because he felt it. It was because he loved his fellow men …

Yes, said Bill Shankly. Yes.

But he was not a theoretical socialist …

No, said Bill Shankly. No.

I don’t think he’d understand anything about the theory of value or any of the scientific socialist writing that I don’t bother much with myself, either …

No.

But he just felt a love of his fellow human beings and he wanted to see their lot improved.

That sums him up, said Bill Shankly. He was born in poverty. And he died in poverty.

Harold Wilson nodded. And Harold Wilson said, And he didn’t believe that the Lord created people to be unequal. That he created one set of people designed to rule the earth and others, you know, to just be the hewers of wood and drawers of water.

His books have been translated for the whole of Russia, said Bill Shankly. Most countries in the world, in fact. But Russia more than anybody, I think.

I’ve found that. I’ve been in Russia many times and they really, I think, worship the ground he walks on. I think he’s been translated into about one hundred and sixty Russian languages. And I remember, many years ago, they brought out a special postage stamp in his honour. Before it was thought of being done in Britain.

They did, said Bill Shankly. They did. For his anniversary.

That’s right.

He was a well-known man for the women, of course?

Harold Wilson said, Yes. I think he got around a little bit …

Bill Shankly laughed.

And I think if he’d been in one of your football teams, you’d have been onto him about the hours he kept.

Yes, said Bill Shankly. I think I’d have had somebody, a detective, watching where he went at night-time.

Harold Wilson said, I think, if he had lived today, he might be in the Scottish football team. Better not say that …

Well, it’s a well-known fact, said Bill Shankly, that in his day, if a man committed fornication, he was reported to the local minister. And the minister sent for the man and he sat him in front of the congregation in a seat called the cutty stool. And he humiliated him in front of all the congregation. This was a well-known thing. Now it would appear that Burns was so often there that he had a season ticket.

Harold Wilson nodded again. And Harold Wilson said, Yes. It’s what you call a sin bin in football.

That’s correct, said Bill Shankly. Burns was in the sin bin. But, nevertheless, a fantastic man. Er, Huddersfield, Mr Wilson?

I was born there …

Yes, yes.

I was at school there until I was sixteen. And then I came to Merseyside …

Your background in Huddersfield, which I know well, of course. I was there five years.

Well, I know, yes. You were manager there.

And I used to play up at Oaks, said Bill Shankly. At the top of the hill there. And at the back of the field we started playing five-a-side football. On a Sunday afternoon. And it started off about five-a-side, then when it finished up there was about fifteen-a-side.

Harold Wilson nodded. And Harold Wilson said, My grandfather and grandmother were married at Oaks. Oaks Chapel. I was there until I was sixteen. Of course, I played football, but was never good enough. I used to go to watch Huddersfield Town every week. I played a bit of rugby league. But not professionally, of course. Then I came to Merseyside because my father lost his job, got another job on the Wirral, and I went to Wirral Grammar School, Wirral County School as it then was, and where I had to play rugby union. And I came to like that as well. But a lot of my formative career was spent on Merseyside as well as in Yorkshire.

Well, I think that, you mention rugby? I think it’s a very good thing for character. I think that the rugby boys are good boys.

Harold Wilson laughed. And Harold Wilson said, Well, soccer is, too. It’s a good thing for character. And bad character sometimes.

I think that rugby union, said Bill Shankly, I mean, at school, I think it’s a good thing for boys.

Yes. Well, I played it for two years. I was captain of the school team and a future England international was in the team when we played our first match and got beaten seventy-four — nil …

Bill Shankly laughed.

Well, it wasn’t bad. We were thirty-seven — nil at half-time and we didn’t deteriorate.

Who were you playing for, asked Bill Shankly. Everton?

No, we were playing for our school. You see, it was a young school. A new school. Only a year old. I was the only boy in the sixth form. And we asked one of the neighbouring schools to give us their fourth team. And they were suspicious. So they gave us their second team and they overwhelmed us.

Ah, yes. That was a form of cheating, wasn’t it, said Bill Shankly. And Bill Shankly looked down at his clipboard –

Er, it’s down here that you went to the Wirral Grammar School, and that was strictly rugby, was it?

Harold Wilson nodded. And Harold Wilson said, Strictly rugby. Well, at one point, the then headmaster, who was an excellent man, got worried that the boys had got nothing to do at lunchtime. So, as school captain, I said I would organise some healthy sports. And we played football every lunchtime. After lunch. Soccer. And I rather enjoyed playing soccer with ten-foot posts.

Aye, laughed Bill Shankly again. I bet you did. Because you had every chance of scoring a goal!

Harold Wilson laughed. And Harold Wilson said, Get the long shots in, yes. Well, I also did a lot of running. I ran for the Wirral Athletic Club. I got their youth championship. And then I ran in the Liverpool and District and we got the bronze, my team.

You were cross-country champion of Merseyside schools?

Harold Wilson shook his head. And Harold Wilson said, No, just the Wirral. I ran all sorts of other sports there. I once ran in the Northern Counties Athletic Championship, behind the man who set the record that year and was the English captain. And I got a good back view of him when we set off.

This cross-country, Mr Wilson? This is really a souldestroying job, isn’t it?

I’d never done much. I was short- and middle-distance. And then I went out to train at our cross-country headquarters and they asked me to run in the championship because they had a good runner who they, you know, wanted to give a chance. And somebody hadn’t turned up. And I just stuck to him and beat him barefoot.

But this all leads up to the fact that you are prime minister of Great Britain. And you’ve played football, you’ve played rugby. You were cross-country champion. Now, I’ve run all distances …

Harold Wilson nodded. And Harold Wilson said, So have I, really. I could never decide what my distance was.

But the cross-country one is really soul-destroying?