President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Mr. Jenner. This discussion occurred in the presence of these people you have mentioned?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Included in that discussion, was the alternative of her residing with your mother discussed?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; it was not, because I did not look to that as an alternative.

Mr. Jenner. Do you know whether Marina—had there been any discussion prior thereto, to your knowledge, of any possibility or suggestion by anyone that Marina undertake residence with your mother?

Mr. Oswald. Not to my knowledge, sir, was there any discussion between me and Marina or myself and my mother that Marina was going to reside in her place.

Mr. Jenner. As a possibility?

Mr. Oswald. Not to my knowledge, sir. I might——

Mr. Jenner. Whether the discussion was directly with you or not, was the subject of the possibility—it is always possible—of Marina residing with your mother—was it raised during this period of time? Did you know of anybody ever suggesting it, or it being considered—apart from whether there was discussion with you directly?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir, to my knowledge I was not aware of any situation such as that.

Mr. Jenner. I forgot now.

Did you say Marina was present during the course of this discussion?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. And did she say anything on the subject through the interpreter?

Mr. Oswald. If I may, sir, go to the preceding day of Thursday, November 28, 1963, to Wednesday, November 27, 1963, at which time I was advised by Secret Service agent Mike Howard of the offer of Mr. Jim Martin to take Marina and the children into the family, into his family, and raise them as he would his own members of the family. I did not discuss at first with Marina this offer. I did discuss with Mr. Jim Martin, prior to discussing with Marina N. Oswald, this possibility.

Mr. Jenner. This possibility being what possibility?

Mr. Oswald. Of Marina accepting this offer.

Mr. Jenner. Of Mr. Martin?

Mr. Oswald. Of Mr. Martin's, that is correct.

After my discussion with Mr. Martin on this question—

Mr. Jenner. In that discussion, were any alternatives discussed?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir, there was not. It was a discussion only about Mr. Martin's offer to her with me in the presence of two Secret Service agents at lunch on that day, Wednesday, November 27, 1963. At the end of that discussion. I considered in my own mind for a number of hours, perhaps three or four hours, at which time I spoke to Marina N. Oswald.

Mr. Jenner. At the Six Flags?

Mr. Oswald. At the Inn of the Six Flags, in a motel room.

Mr. Jenner. Anybody else present?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Jenner. All right.

Mr. Oswald. They were present in the room, but we were in a separate room.

Mr. Jenner. They didn't take part in the discussion?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

At which time I pointed out Mr. Martin to Marina Oswald, and related to her as best I could at that time his offer to take Marina into his home, and the children into his home.

Mr. Jenner. Let me interrupt you.

You say you pointed out Mr. Martin to your sister-in-law, Marina?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. I take it—am I correct from that that she had not theretofore become acquainted with him?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir, I believe she had, but at that time she had seen so many people come in and out of there, that she did not remember which man was Mr. Martin.

And, at this time, I did point out Mr. Martin, so that she would know him from then on.

Mr. Jenner. Was any question raised about her residing at the home of a person who was a complete stranger to her? And about whom you knew little or nothing?

Mr. Oswald. At this time I was considering this, and I believe this was my attempt to have Marina consider this, of moving into a home with a complete strange family.

Mr. Jenner. In other words, you were raising a question in your own mind on the subject?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Up to that time of Mr. Martin's offer, not recalling anybody that I stated it to—I assumed it my full responsibility to have Marina and her children move into my home in Denton, Texas.

Mr. Jenner. Had you suggested that to her?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Or to anybody else?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Had the suggestion been made to you?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir, it had not.

Mr. Dulles. Was going back to the Paines in the picture at that time?

Mr. Oswald. To some extent, and that was excluded entirely by me, sir.

Mr. Jenner. For what reason?

Mr. Oswald. For my observations of Mr. and Mrs. Paine at the Dallas police office, as previously testified.

Mr. Jenner. The antipathy to them that arose, or that you had when you met Mr. Paine, and Mrs. Paine that evening?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Did Marina say anything to you on the subject, of her desire or possibility of her residing—returning to reside with the Paines?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, she did.

Mr. Jenner. And what did she say on that subject?

Mr. Oswald. That she thought she could go back up to Mr. and Mrs. Paine and live.

Mr. Jenner. Did she indicate that that would be entirely acceptable to her?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Even desirable to her?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner. And what was your response to that?

Mr. Oswald. I indicated to her that I thought that that was not the thing to do.

Mr. Jenner. Did you say that to her?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, I did.

Mr. Jenner. Affirmatively?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner. And what did she say in response to that?

Mr. Oswald. I believe, sir, to the best of my memory she wanted to know why I did not want her to return with her children to Mr. and Mrs. Paine.

Mr. Jenner. That is a normal response.

What did you say to that?

Mr. Oswald. As best I could I indicated to her I didn't think they were the proper or correct people for her to be associated with.

Mr. Jenner. Well, that is a term of conclusion, Mr. Oswald. Would you please tell us—were you more specific than that, or just say, "I don't think they are the proper people"?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir. It is very difficult.

Mr. Jenner. Try and reconstruct this conversation as best you can.

Mr. McKenzie. Mr. Jenner, he is trying his best to reconstruct the conversation, and I think he has testified to the best of his recollection.

Mr. Dulles. Are you tired at all?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir, I am not tired. Thank you, sir.

Mr. McKenzie. Let me ask you one question, if I may.

Mr. Jenner. Could he answer the question I have just put to him first?

Mr. McKenzie. Surely.

Mr. Oswald. May I, sir, in my own way?

Mr. Dulles. Do you object to the question?

Mr. McKenzie. No, I don't object to it, Mr. Dulles. I don't think that Robert being a layman knows what a conclusion is insofar as the way the question was framed or insofar as the way it was responded to. And I think he is trying to answer your question.

Mr. Jenner. I don't mean to suggest otherwise.

But the witness, as always—this is not criticism of this witness—they do tend to speak in terms of conclusions.

I am seeking as best you are able to do to reconstruct this event and recite what occurred.

Mr. Dulles. Would you restate the question, or rephrase it, whichever you wish to do?

Mr. Jenner. When Marina indicated to you her desire to return to the Paines and live with the Paines, and you responded as you have now testified, that you thought that that would be unwise, and they were not the kind of people with whom she should reside, would you please call on your recollection so as to state, to the extent that you can, exactly what you said to her in that respect?