President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Mr. Jenner. That is what you mean by believe?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner. All right.

Mr. Oswald. I testify it was either two or three Secret Service agents present, and my best recollection, another Secret Service agent would be Mr. Charles I. Kunkel, and if my recollection serves me correctly, there was an Arlington police officer at the time. It would be either Mr. Bob Parsons or Mr. Jeff Gan.

Mr. Jenner. These were the persons present on this occasion?

Mr. Oswald. I believe this to be.

Mr. Jenner. And what occurred and what was said?

Mr. Oswald. I believe, to my best recollection, mother was in another room and she had received a copy of a newspaper which I cannot identify, that reportedly had a picture of Mr. Rubenstein or Mr. Jack Ruby, and mother exclaimed to me——

Mr. Jenner. Did she come into the room in which you gentlemen were?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, she did.

Mr. Jenner. And she had the newspaper in her possession?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, she did.

Mr. Jenner. And she walked among you and said something?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, she did.

Mr. Jenner. Did she exhibit anything?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, she did.

Mr. Jenner. What did she exhibit?

Mr. Oswald. A picture that I could recognize as a picture now of a man known as Jack Ruby.

Mr. Jenner. That was a picture in the newspaper?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Jenner. All right, proceed.

Mr. Oswald. And she stated to me——

Mr. Jenner. In the presence of the others?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that on Saturday night, November 23, 1963, that two FBI agents had gone to the Executive Inn in Dallas, to the rooms where mother and Marina and Baby June Lee Oswald were staying, and that at this particular time Marina was taking a bath or a shower, mother had just completed hers, she was in a robe, she did not open the door fully, that one of the FBI agents produced a picture that she stated was Mr. Jack Ruby, and that was the text of it.

Mr. Dulles. You did not see the picture that was shown by the Secret Service man?

Mr. Oswald. The FBI man?

Mr. Dulles. The FBI man.

Mr. Oswald. No, sir, I did not. I was not there.

Mr. Jenner. Assuming it was shown, it was not exhibited to you. Your mother stated that a picture of Mr. Jack Ruby had been exhibited to her by an FBI man.

Mr. Oswald. That a picture that an FBI man——

Mr. Jenner. On the Saturday night, November 23, 1963.

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, that the FBI man exhibited a picture, and mother said that she recognized from the newspaper to be Mr. Jack Ruby.

Mr. Jenner. Did any of the gentlemen present say anything when your mother made that statement?

Mr. Oswald. I believe they did, sir.

Mr. Jenner. All right. Give us your best recollection of what was said, and if you can identify the person, do so, but in any event tell us what was said, if you can identify them only by stating he was a police officer or a Secret Service man or an FBI agent, then do that.

Mr. Oswald. I believe Mr. Mike Howard of the United States Secret Service looked at the picture in the newspaper and said something to mother in the line or in the nature of "Are you sure" and so forth like that. It was very brief, and she was saying that she was positive.

Mr. Jenner. She responded that she was certain of it?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, that she was certain that the photograph shown to her on Saturday night, November 23, 1963, was the man in the picture being identified as Mr. Jack Ruby, the killer of my brother, Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. Dulles. Did she say anything about what the officer who had shown her this photograph had said to her, or explained why he was showing that picture?

Mr. Oswald. I believe, sir, she did indicate that they wanted to show it to Marina for identification, and mother explained to him that she was in the shower and was fixing to go to bed, and they were very tired.

Mr. Jenner. Now would you give us please your opinion and judgment as to the stability of your mother?

Mr. Oswald. Prior to November 22, 1963——correction, prior to November 24, 1963, I believed her to be a stable average person. However, during the week of November 24, including the date of November 24, 1963, through Friday of that week, which was November 29, 1963, due to the happenings and the events that had ensued from the November 22d afternoon through Sunday of November 23d, it is my opinion that at first that her reactions were quite normal, and to be expected.

However, it is my opinion during the latter part of that week, from approximately Wednesday, November 27, 1963, that her reactions to other matters related to the events of November 22 and November 24, 1963, were abnormal reactions.

Mr. Jenner. Did those normal or abnormal reactions continue to the best of your knowledge thereafter?

Mr. Oswald. Since I have not seen her, sir, since Friday November 29, 1963, I have talked with her on telephone calls only, I have no opinion on that at this time.

Mr. Jenner. One way or the other?

Mr. Oswald. One way or the other.

Mr. Jenner. Whether continued or not continued?

Mr. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Jenner. You have testified that you thought you had an influence on Lee's joining the Marines. That is an influence of an example rather than a direct influence, that is any direct contact by you suggesting that if he entered the service he should enter the Marines?

Mr. Oswald. That would be correct, sir. It would be as an example.

Mr. Jenner. You mentioned a Mr. Gregory having visited at your home. Will you identify him, please?

Mr. Oswald. I believe his given name, sir, is Mr. Peter Gregory, but I am confused a little bit about his son. His son's name is Paul Gregory, or vice versa.

Mr. Jenner. It is Peter.

Mr. Oswald. Thank you. Mr. Peter Gregory came to my residence in Fort Worth, Tex. on 7313 Davenport Street.

Mr. Jenner. Approximately when, please?

Mr. Oswald. Two occasions, the first occasion being approximately the last week in June, 1962.

Mr. Jenner. What was that occasion?

Mr. Oswald. He had come over to see Lee and meet Marina and talk with them in his native Russian language.

Mr. Jenner. Was he accompanied by anyone?

Mr. Oswald. Not on this first occasion, sir, if my memory serves me correctly. I believe he was by himself.

Mr. Jenner. Was anything said in your presence that you understood, having in mind that he spoke Russian at least in part of that occasion, as to how he became aware that Lee and Marina were residing with you temporarily?

Mr. Oswald. We were expecting Mr. Gregory to come by that night. The preceding 2 or 3 days, I understood from Lee, that when he inquired at one of the bureaus of the Texas employment agencies in Fort Worth, that someone that he had talked to about a job had set up an appointment with Lee to go see Mr. Gregory, since Lee could speak Russian and write the Russian language, they thought perhaps Mr. Gregory might know of some contact that he could place Lee with, where Lee might obtain a job speaking and writing the Russian language. I understood from Lee——

Mr. Jenner. That is the result of discussions in your presence in your home?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. Jenner. By Lee and Marina?

Mr. Oswald. By Lee to me.

Mr. Jenner. Lee to you?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir. And I understood that——

Mr. Jenner. Mr. Oswald, if you could, if it is the result of Lee having told you, would you please state it in those terms rather than that you understood, because your understanding may be based on hearsay that is not the fact.

Mr. Oswald. Lee in our conversation told me that he went to Mr. Gregory's office on the first occasion to meet Mr. Gregory.