Oliver Stone - The Putin Interviews

VP:I congratulate you on that.

OS:Donald Trump won. This is your fourth president, am I right? Clinton, Mr. Bush, Mr. Obama, and now your fourth one.

VP:Yes, that’s true.

OS:What changes?

VP:Well, almost nothing.

OS:Is that your feeling? In between all of the four presidents or do you think…?

VP:Well, life makes some changes for you. But on the whole, everywhere, especially in the United States, the bureaucracy is very strong. And bureaucracy is the one that rules the world.

OS:The bureaucracy rules the world. In all countries?

VP:In many countries.

OS:You said this to me last time—there was a system, we call it the military industrial security complex in America.

VP:Yes, we’ve got a similar system—such systems exist everywhere.

OS:Some people call it the Deep State.

VP:Well, you can call it different names, but this doesn’t change the essence.

OS:Is there any possibility, a hope of change with Mr. Trump?

VP:There is always hope. Until they are ready to bring us to the cemetery to bury us.

OS:[smiles] Wow, that’s very Russian. Very Dostoyevsky. [164] Background Information: Born in Moscow in 1821, Dostoyevsky changed the course of literature by deeply examining philosophy, religion, and existentialism in his works that focused on the internal struggle of the poor, working-class Russian. His notable works include Crime and Punishment , The Brothers Karamazov , and Notes from the Underground . He died in St. Petersburg in 1881. See, Fyodor, Dostoevsky . Bloom, Harold. Infobase Publishing. 2009. The election has been heavily criticized and the narrative as written by the West has now become that Russia interfered in this election to the benefit of Mr. Trump.

VP:You know, this is a very silly statement. Certainly, we liked President Trump and we still like him because he publicly said that he was willing, he was ready to restore American-Russian relations. And when journalists from different countries were asking questions about that, they were trying to catch me, so to speak. I was always asking back, “Are you against good relations between the US and Russia?” All journalists were saying, “Yes, we want good relations between these two countries. We support that.” Well, that would simply be ludicrous in Russia not to welcome that, certainly we welcome the re-establishment of relations. And in this sense we are glad that Donald Trump has won. Certainly, we’ve got to wait and see how, in reality, in practice, the relations between our two countries are going to develop. He was talking about a re-establishment of economic ties, of a joint fight against terrorism. Isn’t that a good thing?

OS:Yes, so why did you bother to hack the election then?

VP:We were not hacking the election at all. It would be hard to imagine that any other country—even a country such as Russia—would be capable of seriously influencing the electoral campaign or the outcome of the election. And some hackers indeed revealed problems that existed within the Democratic Party, but I don’t think that it has influenced in any serious manner either the electoral campaign or its outcome. Yes, these unrecognized hackers, they have brought to light the problems that existed, but they didn’t tell any lies, they were not trying to deceive or fool anyone. And the fact that the chairwoman of the executive committee of the Democratic Party has resigned testifies to the fact that she has admitted it’s true—everything that has been said. So hackers are not the ones to blame. These are internal problems of the United States. These people who tried to manipulate public opinion shouldn’t have tried to create an image of an enemy in the face of Russia. They should have apologized to the electorate, but they didn’t do that. But that is not right, that is not the main problem. Judging from everything, the US people have been waiting for some serious change.

I refer in particular to security-related matters, to the fight against unemployment and the need to create new jobs in the country. I refer to the protection of traditional values, because to a great extent, the US is a Puritan nation, to a great extent. Well, at least the hinterland. And Donald Trump and his team have been very wise in running their electoral campaign. They knew, they understood where their voters were located. The states where the concentration of electors was. And they knew what people living in those states required. They knew how to get the majority of electors to win. When I watched his speeches during the electoral campaign, I thought that he went a little bit too far from time to time. But it turned out he was right. He knew the fiber in the souls of the people. He knew how to play to win their hearts. And I think that no one is going to be able to challenge the outcome of this election. Instead, those who’ve been defeated should have drawn conclusions from what they did, from how they did their jobs, they shouldn’t have tried to shift the blame on to something outside. And I think that Obama’s outgoing team has created a minefield for the incoming president and for his team. They have created an environment which makes it difficult for the new president to make good on the promises that he gave to the people. But in reality, we’re not waiting for anything revolutionary. We are looking forward to the new administration when it’s been completed, when they are willing to launch a dialogue with Russia, with China, with Asia, with all the other countries. So that we can finally understand when the new administration addresses the key issues on the international agenda, and our bilateral agenda as well.

OS:But, you know, even Trump has said the Russians hacked the election—that was a quote. [165] Claim: “But, you know, even Trump has said the Russians hacked the election.” Supporting: See, “Donald Trump Concedes Russia’s Interference in Election,” Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Maggie Haberman, the New York Times (January 11, 2017). Retrieved at: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/trumps-press-conference-highlights-russia.html

VP:I do not understand what he means when he says, “Russia has hacked the election.” I’ve heard different statements of his saying that any hacking attacks, given the current level of technologies, can be produced by anyone anywhere, by a person who lies in his bed somewhere and has a laptop. [166] Background Information: In discussing the statement by Donald Trump that Russia hacked the US elections, Putin replies that Trump had earlier said that anyone anywhere, including a person lying in bed with a laptop, could initiate a hacking attack. See, “Hackers Are Mad That Donald Trump Body-Shamed Them at the Presidential Debate,” Katie Reilly, Fortune (September 26, 2016). Retrieved at: http://fortune.com/2016/09/26/presidential-debate-hackers-body-shamed/ And you can even make it seem as if the hacker attacks are coming from another place, so it’s very difficult to establish the original source of the attack.

OS:Well, this all seems to me still historically enormous—I’ve never seen where the two leading political parties, Democrat and Republican, the intelligence agencies, FBI, CIA, NSA, and the political leadership of NATO believe this story that Russia hacked the election. It’s enormous.

VP:This is not exactly how it is. Well, I think you’ve read the documents related to that, the analysis that have been published.