David Peace - Red or Dead

Bill nodded again. And Bill said, It does. Exactly. And you could get into mischief and all kinds of things. It affects people’s minds. And I think it is possibly the cruellest thing in the world, for boys to leave school and not have a job. A terrible thing. And so I worry about the youngsters these days. I mean, I love youngsters. I can always find the time to talk to them or sign an autograph. I never turned a kid away, if I could help it. Because basically I am sorry for them. I look at them. And I think, What are you going to be when you grow up? What is your destiny? I think it is a terrible thing if a grown-up doesn’t help a youngster. Because kids can be hit terribly hard if an older person goes against them …

And many times each day, the front door rings at our home in West Derby. And standing on the doorstep will be a kid. Or a group of kids. Real Liverpool types. And they say to my wife, they say to Ness, Can I speak to Bill? It’s never Mr Shankly. Oh no. But I don’t mind that. Oh no. My wife has hundreds of photographs of me holding the FA Cup. And I sign one of them personally for the kid and give it to him. Best wishes to Jim or Joe or Jackie, or whatever his name is.

But there is one group of kids. Four or five of them who come up to the house every day while they are on holiday. They always ask me what I am doing. And whether I can come out to play football. They’ve had their autographed photographs by now, of course. But I usually end up giving them their bus fares back to Gillmoss. I don’t know how they found out where I live. But so many of them do. And I don’t mind, I don’t mind at all. Because if I can help a kid along, then I will. They are broken-hearted if you snub them. And that I will never do. And I never have. I mean, there were always kids knocking around Anfield when I was there. They are the future Liverpool supporters, you see? They are real people to me, Shelley. Real people …

Shelley looked across at Sir Harold again –

What did you find it did to your father emotionally, Sir Harold? Because he was only forty-eight, wasn’t he?

He felt unwanted, said Sir Harold. He didn’t know if he would ever get a job again. I saw him one night, just in tears. He felt he had failed everybody.

And even mining was suffering, said Shelley. At that time …

Bill nodded. And Bill said, Oh yes. And it’s come back again.

Do you feel, either of you, asked Shelley, that suffering of that kind helps build character. I know it’s a corny old excuse for a lot of the evils that go on. But is it character building?

Bill said, Oh yes. You’ve got to fight back. If you can’t fight back, there is nothing for you.

And those who collapse under it, said Sir Harold, they are never the same again.

Bill said, No.

But it’s not my recipe or yours, Sir Harold said to Bill, for training people, is it?

Bill shook his head. And Bill said, No way. Not giving in is the thing. So you’ve got to try and fight it. I know that it is easy to talk and unemployment is a terrible thing. But you’ve got to try and fight it.

So you had no choice, said Shelley. It was either unemployment or football. But what have you got out of football all these years?

Well, everything I’ve got, everything I’ve got out of football, I owe to football. And the dedication I had and what I put into the game. You only get out of the game what you put into it, Shelley. And I put everything into it I could. And still do. For the people –

The people I was playing for and the people I was manager for. I didn’t cheat them out of anything! So I put all my heart and soul, to the extent my family suffered.

Do you regret that?

Oh yeah. Yeah. I regret it very much. Yeah. Somebody said, Football is a matter of life and death to you. I said, Listen! It’s more important than that. And that’s true.

It’s a religion, said Sir Harold.

Bill nodded. And Bill said, It is a religion. And my family suffered. They’ve been neglected.

How would you do it now, asked Shelley, if you had your time again. Would you do it the same way?

I don’t know really. If I had the same thoughts, I’d possibly do the same thing again.

Both of you have wives who are very private people, said Shelley. But did they in any way share in your great moments?

Oh, Ness did to a certain degree. The Cup Finals, for instance. The sixty-five Cup Final …

A-ha, said Shelley. Strange you should mention that. We do also have a clip of that …

Have you?

Well, we thought it might just be your greatest moment …

Bill nodded. And Bill said, I think so, yeah.

It’s coming up on that monitor there, said Shelley. Can you talk us through it …

Bill stared across at the monitor. And Bill nodded again. And Bill said, Well, that’s the Cup Final. After extra time. And we beat Leeds United two — one. That was Ronnie Yeats picking up the Cup for the first time ever. After seventy-three years.

Seventy-three years?

Bill said, Yes. And that’s the hardest cup in the world to win. It’s a one-off job. Never mind the European Cup. That’s virtually new. Winning the FA Cup is the hardest cup. It took seventy-three years. And I thought that was a terrible disgrace that we had to suffer the taunts of people saying you hadn’t won the Cup. Now that was the greatest moment of my life, winning the Cup. Not for me –

But for the people in Liverpool.

And you are still living in Liverpool, of course?

Yes. We’re still living in the same house we moved into when we came to Liverpool. But it’s not a house, it’s a home. And I feel at home in Liverpool, with the people of Liverpool. I mean, the last holiday we had was a couple of years ago in Glasgow. Ness cannot really take long journeys and there’s everything I need right here in Liverpool. And so I thank God for the wonderful people of Merseyside. I mean, the attitude of the people of Liverpool towards me and my family is stronger now than it ever was. You know, I never cheated them and they’ve never let me down. We are the same, you see? I mean, I’m just one of the people that stands on the Kop. They think the same as I do and I think the same as they do. So that it is a kind of marriage of people that like each other …

What is it about Liverpool that breeds this sort of fanaticism, asked Shelley. Whether it is politics or football or religion?

Or Everton, said Sir Harold.

Bill smiled. And Bill said, We’re talking about the city of Liverpool now, Sir Harold. I think Shelley means Merseyside …

And Tranmere Rovers, said Sir Harold.

It is Anfield, though, said Shelley, that has something special for you, Bill …

Oh, Anfield has got everything for me. I mean, Anfield is the greatest shrine of all time. I mean, I would like to be buried at Anfield.

Not yet, I hope, said Sir Harold.

And the audience laughed –

Don’t laugh, said Shelley. This is serious, isn’t it?

Bill nodded. And Bill said, Oh yes.

There is a casket of somebody buried there, asked Shelley.

Yes, at the Kop end. In the net, behind the goals. There is a casket, a foot down. And all over the rest of the ground, around the Kop end. It is all spread with ashes …

But are you serious, asked Shelley, when you say you would like to be buried there?

Oh no. I’m not serious. No. I am serious. Oh yes. I mean, I’ll be buried in spirit there. Even if my body does not go there. Because Anfield was the greatest thing that happened to me.

You also seem to have a particular affection for the players who have passed through your hands, said Shelley. So what are the qualities of a good footballer?

Oh, ability. And of course, dedication to the game. And living the life of an athlete. And giving people their money’s worth. I mean, you go there and you pay your money and so you expect effort. And so all the players have got an obligation to do that.