Oliver Stone - The Putin Interviews

OS:In the crisis, in the final days?

VP:Yes and he even agreed to hold early elections. So why do they need to perform this coup d’état? I do not understand.

OS:Okay. So we all remember, I remember you vividly on television saying—I think it was with Charlie Rose, I forgot—but you said there was much evidence and you smiled as you said it. There was much evidence—implying that a thousand eyes were upon this. You know that expression, a thousand eyes were upon this coup. It was a coup in slow motion. It was pretty evident, transparent to the Russians.

VP:Certainly.

OS:And you said that on television, but I think the American people find it difficult to understand but, by talking about the evidence and showing it, we might be able to convince the American public that they were being fooled by the Western narrative of events and that there indeed was a coup d’état that went down.

VP:That’s very easy to achieve—you simply have to look at the developments. After Yanukovych announced that he had to postpone the signing of the association agreement with the European Union, no one listened to the reasons why, to the terms, to the timetables—mass riots erupted right away after the announcement. [156] Background Information: See: Ukraine protests after Yanukovych EU deal rejection,” Oksana Grytsenko, BBC (November 30, 2013). Retrieved at: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25162563 These riots led to the seizure of his residence, and on the eve of that, he had signed an agreement with the opposition on settling the situation, on the possible organization of early elections, and three foreign ministers of European countries added their signatures to the agreement. Where are these guarantees? Once the president went to the second largest city of the country to attended a political event, armed men seized the residence of the president. Imagine something like that in the US, if the White House was seized—what would it be called? A coup d’état, or would you say that they have come to sweep the floors. The prosecutor general was shot at. There were so many shootings, so much violence.

OS:I had an interview with Mr. Yanukovych, so I know his version, but it was characterized in the US press as if Yanukovych abandoned Kiev, because he felt the crowd would tear him apart.

VP:Yes, that’s the version used to justify the support granted to the coup d’état. Mr. Yanukovych didn’t leave to go abroad. He was in the country when his residence was taken. [157] Claim: “Mr. Yanukovych didn’t leave to go abroad. He was in the country when his residence was taken.” Supporting: President Yanukovych left Kiev for Ukraine’s second largest city Kharkiv, that was considered his eastern political base. See, “Ukraine crisis: Viktor Yanukovych leaves Kiev for support base,” Bonnie Malkin, The Telegraph (February 22, 2014). Retrieved at: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10655335/Ukraine-crisis-Viktor-Yanukovych-leaves-Kiev-for-support-base.html Moreover, one day afterwards, he used our support and he relocated to the Crimea. Back then, the Crimea was still part of Ukraine. And Yanukovych stayed there for more than 10 days—at least a week in the Crimea, thinking there was still a chance that those people who had put their signatures under the agreement with the opposition would make some attempt, with a view to settling this conflict by civilized, democratic, legal means. But it never happened. It became evident that if he was taken by these people he would simply be killed by them. And, afterwards, he found himself in Russia. Everything can be perverted or distorted, millions of people can be deceived if you have a monopoly on the media. But in the end, I believe for an objective and impartial spectator it’s clear what happened. A coup d’état had taken place. All right, if this coup d’état had made some positive changes… but, on the contrary, the situation deteriorated even further. Ukraine lost territory, not due to Russia’s actions, but due to the choice made by those who are live in Crimea. These people didn’t want to live under the banner of nationalists. A civil war erupted in the southeastern part of Ukraine, in the Donbass. After that, the country witnessed a terrible drop in the GDP. The largest industrial enterprises shut down. Unemployment soared. The real income of the population, their salaries, plunged, inflation hit 45 or 47 percent. And no one knew how to address these issues, or that this would be further exacerbated by an internal political crisis, by a fight between the Prime Minister and the President. In the end, it led to Prime Minister Yatsenyuk resigning. He had actively supported, and had been supported by, the American administration throughout the crises. And what happened next? The European Union opened its borders to Ukraine. It zeroed out the tariff for Ukrainian goods. But Ukraine’s trade with the European Union decreased by 23 percent, and with Russia it decreased by 50 percent. Ukrainian industrial output is not in high demand in European markets and now they have no access to the Russian market. The agricultural produce that used to be traded successfully in Western Europe is restricted by quotas. And these quotas were introduced by the Europeans. They were exhausted during the first two months after the signing of the agreement. Right now Ukraine is fighting to get a visa-free arrangement for its citizens. Do you know why they are doing that? So they could ensure free exit from the country to find new jobs outside of the country. But the people are once again being tricked, because even if a visa-free deal were granted to Ukraine, that would not enable them to work abroad.

OS:Visa-free to Russia?

VP:No, visa-free to the European Union. People heard that they would be able to relocate and work in another country in Europe. There’s something I’d like to tell you. Ukraine has always been an industrialized country as part of the Soviet Union. And right now, a Ukrainian’s dream is to work as a nurse or a gardener or a nanny in a European country amid the complete de-industrialization of the country. Why did they need all that? I simply cannot imagine.

OS:Well, it seems to me what you’re saying is that Russia doesn’t need Ukraine.

VP:Russia is a self-sufficient country. We do not need anyone, but with Ukraine we are connected by thousands of ties. On many occasions I’ve said that and I’d like to reiterate. I’m deeply convinced that the Ukrainian people and the Russian people are not simply close relatives. They are almost the same. As for the language, the culture, the history, each certainly has to be treated with respect. And even when we were one single country, we treated them with respect. Suffice it to say that the whole of the Soviet Union for decades, was managed by those who originated from Ukraine. I think that testifies to a lot.

OS:Yes, but economically, as you say, you’re self-sufficient. They’re gone—let them have their problems. It’s not going to destroy your country.

VP:No, certainly—not in the least.

OS:One point you made in our last meeting. I asked, “What about the Russian submarine base in Crimea?” Sebastopol I think it was. And you said it was not important because you have another base across the water—somewhere around here. In other words, you weren’t threatened by the loss of the base. That’s what you told me at the time.

VP:Losing the base in Sebastopol was a threat, but it was not too sensitive. Because by that time… right now we are commissioning a new military base—indeed not far from here in Novorossiysk. [158] Background Information: Putin notes that losing the base in Sebastopol was not a threat because the new base at Novorossiysk was being commissioned. See, “Russia To Unveil New $1.4 Billion Black Sea Fleet Base Near Crimea,” Damien Sharkov, Newsweek (July 28, 2016). Retrieved at: http://www.newsweek.com/russia-unveil-new-14-bn-black-sea-fleet-base-four-years-484974 What was presenting certain difficulties to us was the severing of ties between the companies of the defense sector. Because the defense sectors of Ukraine and Russia during the Soviet period were one single system. And if these relations were severed, then that certainly would lead to a certain negative impact on our defense industry. But we have devised a whole system for input-substitution as we call it. And right now, we are actively surmounting all of these difficulties. We are establishing new enterprises from scratch, and these enterprises produce a new generation of military equipment. And that defense industry in Ukraine which used to provide support to Russia is now simply dying out—I’m talking about the missile industry, aircraft industry and also engine construction.