Oliver Stone: The Putin Interviews

OS:Just out of curiosity, because I know the Khrushchev story, having to drink with Stalin—did you have a drink with Mr. Yeltsin at night sometimes?

VP:No, never. I was not as close to him as you might suspect. I never was one of the closest advisers either to Gorbachev or to Yeltsin. And it was a complete surprise when he appointed me head of the Federal Security Service. That’s the first thing. Secondly, I never abused alcohol. But even when we met, it was also always in a businesslike manner. And I never saw him drunk when he was at work.

OS:A hangover maybe?

VP:I never checked. I never tried to smell him. I’m quite sincere. I never went with him to hunt, I never spent time with him. I met with him at his office. And that’s it. I never drank a shot of vodka with him.

OS:Wow. So here you are—many prime ministers come and go and all of a sudden—you’re the acting prime minister. Now what?

VP:Yes, you know that’s a curious story. You see, I came from Leningrad to Moscow in 1996 just as you said. And on the whole in Moscow I didn’t have any strong support, any contacts. In 1996 I came, and on January 1, 2000 I became acting president. So it’s an incredible story.

OS:Yeah.

VP:But I have to tell you that indeed I didn’t have any special relationship either with Yeltsin or his team.

OS:Maybe some other prime minister had been fired and he just said, “Well you take the job now.”

VP:I don’t know. Probably he was trying to find someone because he had decided to resign. And indeed several prime ministers had been appointed, then resigned. I don’t know why he chose me. Before me there had been very talented prime ministers and recently just one of them has passed away. But when Yeltsin offered this job to me for the first time I refused.

OS:You refused? Why is that?

VP:Yes. I told him—it was in the adjacent office—he invited me in and told me that he wanted to appoint me as prime minister and then wanted me to run for president. I told him that was a great responsibility and that I had to change my life for that. And I was not sure that I was willing to do that. And he told me, “Well, we’ll get back to this conversation later.”

OS:Changed your life in what way? I mean, you had already been a bureaucrat in the government for a long time.

VP:Well it’s quite a different story still. It’s one thing when you’re a bureaucrat—even a high level bureaucrat—you can live almost an ordinary life. You can go to see your friends, go to the cinema, to the theater, to talk to friends freely. And not assume such personal responsibility for the fates of millions of people for everything that’s going on in the country. And to assume responsibility for Russia back then was a very difficult thing to do. And, moreover, in August 1999, when Boris Yeltsin offered my candidature as prime minister and the parliament supported that decision. And the second Chechen War started in Russia in August. [8] Background Information: The First Chechen War, waged by President Boris Yeltsin, lasted between 1994 and 1996. The war was waged by Moscow to re-assert control of the Republic of Chechnya which was attempting to break away. The Second Chechen War, began on the Russian side by the new President, Vladimir Putin, was carried out in defense of the Chechen Republic leadership against radical Islamic extremists, many who infiltrated from abroad, who were attempting to topple the upstart Chechen government. Thousands died on both sides of these conflicts in what came to be considered “Russia’s Vietnam War.” Russia did not declare victory in the Second Chechen War until 2009. “Chechnya, Russia and 20 years of Conflict,” Mansur Mirovalev, Al Jaazera (Dec. 11, 2014). Retrieved at: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/12/chechnya-russia-20-years-conflict-2014121161310580523.html For an actual chronology of these conflicts, see, “Chechnya and Russia: timeline,” The Guardian (April 16, 2009). Retrieved at: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/apr/16/chechnya-russia-timeline And that was an ordeal for the country. And frankly speaking, I didn’t know back then President Yeltsin’s final plans with regard to me. But the situation was just like that. I had to assume responsibility for this situation. And I didn’t know how long I would endure. Because at any second President Yeltsin could tell me, “You are dismissed.” And there was only one thing I was thinking about back then: Where to hide my children?

OS:Oh really? And what would you do?

VP:Well, what would you think? The situation was very acute—just imagine if I were dismissed. I didn’t have any bodyguards and what would I do? How to secure my family? And back then I decided if that was my fate, then I had to go to the end. And I didn’t know then that I was to become president. There were no guarantees of that.

OS:May I ask, were you ever in meetings with Yeltsin and any of the oligarchs?

VP:Yes, certainly.

OS:So you saw the way he handled it?

VP:Of course. It was quite official, very pragmatic. He met them not as oligarchs but as representatives of large enterprises—as people on whose work the fates of millions of people depended and large labor forces.

OS:Did you sense that Yeltsin was being pushed around?

VP:Yes, but he didn’t understand that. Boris Yeltsin was a very distant man. If he is to blame for anything with regard to this oligarchic system of governance, it’s that he was very trusting. And he had no relations whatsoever with oligarchs. And he never got any benefits from those oligarchs personally.

OS:Did you ever meet Berezovsky or people like that? [9] Background Information: Boris Berezovsky was a controversial billionaire oligarch who got rich, as many did, by taking over industry during the privatization of the Russian economy shortly before and after the collapse of the USSR. He died under mysterious circumstances in 2013. Forbes Magazine believes that Berezovsky may have killed its editor Paul Klebnikov. “Did Boris Berezovsky Kill Himself? More Compelling, Did He Kill Forbes Editor Paul Klebnikov?” Richard Behar, Forbes (March 24, 2013). Retrieved at: https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2013/03/24/did-boris-berezovsky-kill-himself-more-compelling-did-he-kill-forbes-editor-paul-klebnikov/#621359176729

VP:Yes, certainly. I was acquainted with Berezovsky even before I came to Moscow.

OS:In what way? Was it friendly?

VP:No, we didn’t have any friendly relations. I met him because I was working in St. Petersburg and there was a request from Moscow to receive someone from the US Senate, if I remember correctly. That was a senator flying from Tbilisi and he wanted to meet Sobchak and, since I was in charge of external relations of the city, I was asked to organize that meeting. I reported to Sobchak. He agreed and we met that senator, that gentleman who came from Tbilisi and Berezovsky came with the senator—he was accompanying him. And that’s the way I met him. And Mr. Berezovsky fell asleep during the meeting.

OS:Well, Berezovsky is a smart man, he must have summed you up—looked at you wondering how he can handle you or deal with you, right? I mean, it’s going both ways.

VP:No, you see I was just an assistant to Sobchak. If he was thinking about something he was thinking about how to foster his relationship with Sobchak, not with me.