President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Mr. Rankin. The conspiracy I was asking about was the conspiracy, she said, about the assassination of President Kennedy.

And she said that it involved the two Secret Service agents and her daughter-in-law and her son. That is the one I was asking about.

The Chairman. And Mrs. Paine.

Mrs. Oswald. And Mrs. Paine. I feel like the facts have come from this particular source.

Mr. Rankin. Now, as I understand she says now that she is speculating as to that being a possibility.

Mrs. Oswald. Well, now, Mr. Rankin. I have not changed my testimony, if you are implying that. I may not have put it in a position you understood. Because as I say, I certainly did not mean to imply that I had proof, because if I had proof I would not be sitting here taking all my energy and trying to show you this little by little. I would have had an affidavit and show you the proof. So if you want to call it speculation, call it speculation. I don't care what you call it. But I am not satisfied in my mind that things are according to Hoyle. And I believe that my son is innocent. And I also realize that my son could be involved. But I have no way of knowing these things unless I analyze the papers that I have, sir.

Mr. Rankin. The Commission would like to know what you base your assumption that your son was an agent on. Could you help us?

Mrs. Oswald. Would you like me to go into this story—I will start with my son's life from the very beginning.

Mr. Rankin. Can't we get down to——

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir, we cannot. I am sorry. This is my life. I cannot survive in this world unless I know I have my American way of life and can start from the very beginning. I have to work into this. I cannot answer these questions like in a court, yes or no. And I will not answer yes or no. I want to tell you the story. And that is the only way you can get a true picture. I am the accused mother of this man, and I have family and grandchildren, and Marina, my daughter-in-law. And I am going to do everything I can to try and prove he is innocent.

Mr. Rankin. Well, now, Mrs. Oswald, you are not claiming before this Commission that there was anything back at the beginning, at the early childhood of your son, in which you thought he was an agent?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir—at age 16.

Mr. Rankin. Well, why don't you start with age 16, then.

Mrs. Oswald. Well, aren't you gentlemen—I have a letter from you, Mr. Rankin. Aren't you gentlemen interested in my son's life from the very beginning? I think you should, because it has been exploited in all the magazines and papers. And this is not my son is what I am trying to say. He is not a perfect boy, and I am not a perfect woman. But I can show a different side of Lee Harvey Oswald, which I hope to do to this Commission.

Mr. Rankin. Well, I plan to ask you about his early life and these other parts. But I thought it would be helpful if you would be willing to do it to tell the Commission, while Mr. Dulles is here, what you base this claim upon that your son was an agent of the Government.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, and I would be happy to do it.

Mr. Rankin. If you have to go to when he was 16 years old as the first point, that will be fine.

But if you could cover that—then we will go on to the other things.

Mrs. Oswald. All right. I have your word that you will let me have my life story from early childhood and Lee's life story from early childhood.

Now, I will start from age 16. Is that satisfactory?

Mr. Rankin. Would you do that?

Mrs. Oswald. Thank you very much. We were in New Orleans, La., at this particular time. On or about October 5th or 7th—and you have this, gentlemen, as my proof, that I am telling a true story, and I will have witnesses that will be called—is a letter——

Mr. Dulles. What year, Mrs. Oswald?

Mrs. Oswald. I said 1959—I am sorry. 1955. No, wait now. 1956—when we left New Orleans is 1956. Am I not correct? I am a little excited now, because of what happened before. The note——

Mr. Rankin. He joined the Marines in 1956. Does that help you?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. Wait. We have a note from the Beauregard School by me that I was going to San Diego. Do you have the note?

Mr. Rankin. We do.

Mrs. Oswald. May I see that note, please? And that is approximately October 5th or the 7th, I think it is, 1955.

Mr. Dulles. I think you moved to Fort Worth with Lee in September 1956.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir. So it was in '55. I think that is correct. Let me see.

Mr. Rankin. We are handing you this book that we received from the State of Louisiana that is Commission's Exhibit No. 365, and turn to page 11 and you will find the note you referred to.

Mrs. Oswald. To the school. All right, gentlemen, this is a surprise. This is my note, isn't, to the school, that I am moving to San Diego. And it has been blasted in all the papers how I moved around, and I was going to San Diego.

Gentlemen, I had nothing to do with this note, nothing whatsoever.

Lee, my son, wrote the note—on or about October 5th or the 7th—October 7th. And now comes the story why he wrote the note.

If you will see here, this is Lee's handwriting, to the letters.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence that note on page 11.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 199, and received in evidence.)

Mrs. Oswald. I had nothing to do with this note.

Now, I am working at Kreeger's Specialty Shop, 800 and something Canal Street in New Orleans, La. I received a telephone call from the principal of the Beauregard School saying. "Mrs. Oswald, I understand you are going to leave town, and we are awfully sorry to lose Lee."

Of course now, gentlemen, I am working and this is news to me.

So I said—I kind of went along with it a little bit.

Lee came into this shop later on that day. Miss Lillian New, I think her name was, who is manager of Kreeger's Shop, and has been for years—she will witness this.

He said, "Mother, I have quit school."

Mr. Rankin. You say when the school authorities asked you, you sort of went along with it. What do you mean by that?

Mrs. Oswald. When the lady called me and said that, "I understand you are leaving town, Mrs. Oswald."

Mr. Rankin. What did you say?

Mrs. Oswald. Well, because there was a switchboard, and my job was in jeopardy, I don't know the exact words, but I said—I had to be kind of vague about it and not discuss it. I knew I wasn't leaving town, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Did you tell her you were not?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't think I told her. But I had to be very—I would lose my job if they thought I was leaving town. It was news to me.

So Lee that afternoon, from school, came into Kreeger's Specialty Shop where I was working and said, "Mother. I want to join the Marines, and I have quit school."

Now, Mr. Kreeger—and he may be leaving—Mr. Frank Kreeger who is owner of Kreeger's Specialty Shop, and all of the personnel there—this is a very small shop, and Miss Lillian, who was manager, knows of this. I became very excited and I started to cry. And they let me go home with Lee.

So Lee was determined at age 16—his birthday was going to be October 18th, right—and this was October 7th—was going to join the Marines. So what Lee wanted me to do was falsify his birth certificate, which I would not do. And he kept after me, like a boy.

Now, this is a normal boy, wanting to join the Marines.

"I don't see why you don't just put that I am 17 years old."

I said, "Lee. We cannot do that."

He said, "Everybody else"—

I said, "No, I am not going to do it."

For 2 or 3 days Lee and I bickered back and forth about me falsifying his age.

So I have a very good friend, Mr. Clem Sehrt, who is an attorney in New Orleans, La. I called him and told him I had a personal problem. I had not seen Mr. Sehrt since early childhood. I knew the family. That Lee was not of age and he wanted to join the Marines. And he quit the school and told them we were going out of town.