President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Well, I am going to prove this story to you. It is a fantastic story. But as I go along—I have witnesses—and that is why I asked you, sir, I would like these people called to back up these fantastic stories I am telling you. It can be proven, sir.

So I had no further contact with my daughter-in-law—once they came out and said what they had planned. I had no inkling of it. That was the—they wanted to keep her and the children away from me.

That night, the night of November 27th—now, we were in a bedroom with twin beds that we shared. They opened the studio couch in the living room, and rolled June's bed, the baby bed in the living room, sir.

Mr. Rankin. What do you mean by "they"?

Mrs. Oswald. The Secret Service had the maid come in with sheets and everything and they got—opened the sofa into a bed. The Secret Service rolled the baby bed from the bedroom into the living room. And I knew that I was not wanted or involved. And I have a very dignified way about me. I didn't say a word. What I did—I sat up in a chair all night long in the living room, rather than to be so indignant as to sleep in the bedroom where they had taken my daughter-in-law from me. I sat up in a chair in the living room rather than be pushed aside like I was being pushed aside.

Mr. Rankin. Well, now, what Secret Servicemen were these—Mr. Howard?

Mrs. Oswald. Mr. Howard was involved, and this other man.

Mr. Rankin. The same man?

Mrs. Oswald. This same man. And my son is in this, too. Robert was part of this conspiracy that they were going to let her go to a home, and they didn't tell me—and Mr. Peter Gregory.

Mr. Rankin. And did they move your daughter-in-law out into the living room?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir, she slept on the sofa. And they moved June's baby bed from the bedroom into the living room, by my daughter-in-law. And I sat in a chair. I can do that. I am a nurse, and I can do without sleep. And I had all the papers. I told you that the night before they took me home to get my papers. And that is why I knew I had the insurance money. So I started to work on the papers. And I sat up all night long.

Mr. Rankin. What did Marina say about that arrangement?

Mrs. Oswald. There was nothing said between Marina and I. The last time I had seen Marina was when she shrugged me off, and then this came out why she shrugged me off. I have had no contact with Marina since.

Mr. Rankin. Now, why do you think there is a conspiracy about this? Can you explain that to us?

Mrs. Oswald. About this particular instance?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. Well, I don't say that is a particular instance. But it is certainly a very unusual way to do a thing, a very unusual way—not to consult me. Marina and I were friends. She was going to come and live with me. I was going to share my money with her. And then they went ahead and planned all this without my knowledge.

Maybe you know the answer to it, I don't know. But there was no hard feelings—even now I love Marina and I would take and help her any way I can.

So I don't understand these things. But I am telling you the way things happen, the way I was excluded. And your Secret Service agents had part of this.

Mr. Rankin. And you do not think Robert and the Secret Service agents could be acting in good faith to try to just help Marina and her children along?

Mrs. Oswald. Well, I cannot see from my point of view that it would be good that a foreign girl lives in a stranger's home, a perfect stranger who has come to the police department and offered her a home. We are talking about a perfect stranger. If she is a perfect stranger—maybe she wasn't. I have no way of knowing. But I am going to assume what I read. It would be much better for this girl to go live in this stranger's home than to be with her family? This girl and my grandchildren needed a family, which I was that family. I cannot see that.

Mr. Rankin. What I am asking you is: Do you think it is possible that Robert was just mistaken when he and the Secret Service man, if they are involved, thought this might be a good plan. Isn't it possible they were trying to do the right thing?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir, I think it was deliberate. I am sure—I don't think. I am positive it was deliberate. And I will tell you why as we go along.

Mr. Rankin. Now, you said you thought it was deliberate.

Mrs. Oswald. I am trying to get everything in, so you can get a clear picture.

Mr. Rankin. Well, this plan to have your daughter-in-law go and live with another lady—this Mrs. Pultz—you said you did not think it could be innocent or in good faith?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes—because then this same Secret Service man, that I don't know the name—now, I may be wrong about this—just a moment. No—this is not the same man.

One of the other Secret Service men had gone to talk to Robert's boss, because Robert was worried about his job. So this happened in the afternoon. I had no contact with Marina. And he came in and in front of me he patted Robert on the shoulder and said, "Now, Robert, I have talked to your boss and you are all right. I assured him you are not involved in any way."

So, gentlemen, Marina is taken care of; Robert is taken care of—I am not feeling sorry for myself, believe me, because I can take care of myself. But here is a mother who has come to the rescue, lost her job, offered her good love and insurance money, and nobody has wondered what is going to become of me.

Mr. Rankin. Well, did you think it was improper that the Secret Service man would go to Robert's boss and tell him he was not involved, that there was nothing improper?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir; I do not. I think it was a fine gesture. And that is the point I am trying to make out. Why are these fine gestures to see that Marina is going to have a home and be taken care of, and Robert's job is secure—but I am nothing. I was not included in the plans. And what is going to become of me? I have no income. I have no job. I lost my job. And nobody thought about me.

I don't mean to imply I'm sorry for myself. I am trying to bring out a point that through all of this, that I have not been considered, even as much as to testify. I want to know why. I don't understand why.

It is very strange.

I packed during the night, sat up in the chair, as I said.

So the next morning I am on my way home. I have no purpose to be there. I was helping my daughter-in-law, and helping the children. But now I am out of everything, so I insist on going home.

Before going home, I asked to tell Marina goodby, and my grandchildren, and what they have done this morning—they have taken her out of these quarters and brought her next door, to the other quarters of the Inn—it is just one door and a little courtyard to the other door.

Mr. Rankin. What day is this?

Mrs. Oswald. This is the 28th. So the agent that was taking me home—I'm sorry, but I'm very bad at names, and there were so many agents, it is awfully hard for me to remember it all. I told him that I wanted to tell Marina that I was going. He knocked on the door. The Russian interpreter from the State Department, Mr. Gopadze, came to the door, and the agent said, "Mrs. Oswald is going home and wants to tell Marina and the children goodby."

He said, "Well, we are interviewing her, and she is on tape. She will get in touch with you."

So I never saw Marina after that time.

Now, what worried me so was what did Marina think. What did Marina know of this, and what did she think? Did she think I deserted her? Did they think I left without telling her goodby? This worried me very much. I could picture the girl. What did she think? I didn't even get to tell her goodby.

So I tried in vain to see Marina. I have called Mr. F. V. Sorrels over and over and over, and he has never told me that Marina did not want to see me. And this, gentlemen, I have proof of. He always said, "Well, Mrs. Oswald, I am not able to divulge where she is" and the regular push-around. He is not telling me plainly I am not going to see Marina, he is being very courteous to me, but not letting me see Marina—if I am making this plain. And I have publicly blasted that. Over and over I have tried unsuccessfully.