President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Marina didn't answer.

And I then sensed—well, now, why isn't she answering me? This is very peculiar.

And there was no more said about that conversation.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ask her about this lawyer?

Mrs. Oswald. Ask Marina?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. There was no more said about this conversation.

Mr. Rankin. You didn't say anything about Mr. Abt to her then?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. But here is the point to this whole thing.

The FBI agent would have to know where we were, and Mrs. Paine would have to know where we were, because of these two Life representatives, who, I am assuming, probably went back to Mrs. Paine's home in order to get more information. And she—they would have told her where we were, because no one knew where we were. This girl and I had no protection or anything. We were sent out there with this Mr. Allen Grant, the representative. And no one knew who we were. And Mr. Hart Odum would have to know where we were through Mrs. Paine, which is a normal procedure, let's say. He might have gone to Mrs. Paine's home looking for Marina there, and Mrs. Paine might have told him we were at the Executive Inn. I will grant that.

But the point I am going to make is that the picture was tried to be shown to Marina before the telephone conversation.

Now, if there are any questions why I say that, I would be happy to answer.

Mr. Rankin. Yes—why do you say that?

Mrs. Oswald. Because they wanted Marina——

Mr. Dulles. Could we get what picture this is? Is that the picture held in the hand?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir—the picture that is held in the hand, that the FBI agent, Mr. Hart Odum showed me.

Mr. Rankin. I understand you didn't recognize who the picture was at all.

Mrs. Oswald. No. I told Mr. Hart Odum I had never seen the man before, "Believe me, sir," and he left.

So the picture was shown—was tried—had tried to be shown to my daughter-in-law, but they were not successful.

So then they received—Marina receives a telephone call.

Now, I am under the impression, since I know it was Mr. Jack Ruby's picture I saw—at the time I didn't.

Mr. Rankin. How do you know that?

Mrs. Oswald. Because I have seen his picture in the paper. Now I know it is Mr. Jack Ruby.

I am under the impression that Marina was threatened——

Mr. Rankin. What was the date now?

Mrs. Oswald. This is Saturday, November 23d. This is approximately 6:30 in the evening, that the FBI agent came. And the telephone call was later.

Now, I have no way of knowing whether Lee had permission to use the telephone. Remember, Lee is in jail.

Mr. Rankin. About what time do you think the telephone call was?

Mrs. Oswald. I would say it was about 7:30, 8 o'clock in the night.

Mr. Rankin. That was still on Saturday night?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir, still on Saturday night at the Executive Inn. And that was after the picture was shown to me—she received this telephone call, and became very silent.

And the next day my son was shot.

Now, it is now that I have done investigation of this case that I believe that the picture was meant for Marina to see, meant for Marina to see.

Mr. Rankin. Why do you think that?

Mrs. Oswald. Because now it has been proven that Jack Ruby killed my son. And I think there is a connection there. Because Marina did not tell me about her conversation. And you men hold the answer whether Lee used the telephone from the jailhouse. I don't know that.

Mr. Rankin. You base that on just your own conclusion that you arrive at now, do you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes—because of the FBI agent, Mr. Hart Odum, insistence on taking my daughter-in-law—and he being the same agent that came and showed the picture. And Mr. Ruby being the man that shot Lee—yes, these are definite conclusions.

Mr. Rankin. That is what you base it on?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir, that is what I base it on.

Mr. Dulles. Do I understand correctly that Marina did not see the picture at any time?

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct, sir. But they tried awfully hard for Marina to see the picture.

Mr. Rankin. And when they could not show it to her——

Mrs. Oswald. They showed it to me—yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Have you ever seen that picture since?

Mrs. Oswald. On a Wednesday—Lee was shot on a Sunday—neither Marina nor I knew how he was shot. They kept it from us. You have to visualize this.

We were at the Six Flags with approximately 18 to 20 FBI agents, Secret Service men running in and out, a woman with a Russian girl and two sick babies, and the girl and I do not know what is going on.

Mr. Rankin. When you had gotten over to the Six Flags, you must have skipped something there—you were in the Executive Inn before.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I was going to make a point about letting you know why I didn't know.

Mr. Rankin. All right.

Mrs. Oswald. All right—let's go back to the Executive Inn.

So that night I was very upset and very worried. I realized that we were there alone. And we were not going to go in town, into Dallas. I wasn't going to take this Russian girl and the two babies. And the babies were all chapped. We had no diapers. We were not prepared for this. And it was hectic, gentlemen.

So all night long I am wondering how can I get in touch with Robert, what can I do.

And I was a little suspicious of Mrs. Paine. I was suspicious of Mrs. Paine from the time I entered her home.

Mr. Rankin. Had you found out how much money the Life man gave you?

Mrs. Oswald. No, not even yet.

Mr. Rankin. All right.

Mrs. Oswald. So I signed for the food. I called the operator and I asked the operator what name the room was registered under. She said, "Well, this is an unusual request. Don't you know what room—what name?"

I said, "Frankly, I don't. We are three couples. I don't know which name they used."

So she told me that the room was registered under Mrs. Allen Grant, which is the name of the Life representative. So I charged and signed. And they would have that for proof—Mrs. Allen Grant, on the food.

Mr. Rankin. Why did you say three couples?

Mrs. Oswald. I just said that to the operator, because I had to give her a reason why I didn't know which name the room was registered under.

So I just wanted to elaborate a little bit—let her know. I didn't want to give my name. Because I was by this time a little concerned about the situation.

During the night I thought—"We are in a position here, I am in a position with a Russian girl and two babies, and I just don't know what to do."

I had no contact with Robert. Robert was trying to get an attorney. And I didn't know if Robert knew where we were. And I did not want to call Mrs. Paine. I wanted to stay clear of Mrs. Paine.

So this is a very unusual coincidence.

Now, I have to go back a little bit. But, believe me, gentlemen, the story will get together for you to understand.

About 1 month prior to this, there was an ad in a Fort Worth paper that the public library was going to have language lessons, and one was Russian classes.

Well, I then, as I told you—I was employed for the 3 to 11 shift. And I was getting a day off. And this would have been a steady job because this woman was not that sick, just an invalid.

So I decided on my day off I wanted to do something. So I decided I would call up about it, and on my day off—make Tuesday my day off and take up Russian in case—because I had always hoped in my heart that Marina and Lee would contact me some day. After all, I am a mother first.

So I went to the library. And Mr. Peter Gregory was the instructor.

Now, you must remember—I did not know that he knew Marina and Lee. This is public notice for the Russian language.