President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether he took the rifle before he went into Dallas, that trip, for that weekend?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know. I think that he took the rifle on Thursday when he came the next time, but I didn't see him take it. I assume that. I cannot know it.

Mr. Rankin. Except for the time in New Orleans that you described, and the time you called to Dallas to ask for your husband, do you know of any other time your husband was using an assumed name?

Mrs. Oswald. No, no more.

Mr. Rankin. Did you think he was using that assumed name in connection with this Fair Play for Cuba activity or something else?

Mrs. Oswald. The name Hidell, which you pronounced Hidell, was in connection with his activity with the non-existing organization.

Mr. Rankin. Did you and your husband live under the name Hidell in New Orleans?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. You were never identified as the Hidells, as far as you knew, while you were there?

Mrs. Oswald. No. No one knew that Lee was Hidell.

Mr. Rankin. How did you discover it, then?

Mrs. Oswald. I already said that when I listened to the radio, they spoke of that name, and I asked him who, and he said that it was he.

Mr. Rankin. Was that after the arrest?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't remember when the interview took place, before the arrest or after.

Mr. Rankin. But it was in regard to some interview for radio transmission, and he had identified himself as Hidell, rather than Oswald, is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. No—he represented himself as Oswald, but he said that the organization which he supposedly represents is headed by Hidell.

Mr. Rankin. He was using the name Hidell, then, to have a fictitious president or head of the organization which really was he himself, is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. You have told us about his practicing with the rifle, the telescopic lens, on the back porch at New Orleans, and also his using the bolt action that you heard from time to time.

Will you describe that a little more fully to us, as best you remember?

Mrs. Oswald. I cannot describe that in greater detail. I can only say that Lee would sit there with the rifle and open and close the bolt and clean it. No, he didn't clean it at that time.

Yes—twice he did clean it.

Mr. Rankin. And did he seem to be practicing with the telescopic lens, too, and sighting the gun on different objects?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know. The rifle was always with this. I don't know exactly how he practiced, because I was in the house, I was busy. I just knew that he sits there with his rifle. I was not interested in it.

Mr. Rankin. Was this during the light of the day or during the darkness?

Mrs. Oswald. During darkness.

Mr. Rankin. Was it so dark that neighbors could not see him on the porch there with the gun?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Now, during the week of the assassination, did your husband call you at all by telephone?

Mrs. Oswald. He telephoned me on Monday, after I had called him on Sunday, and he was not there.

Or, rather, he was there, but he wasn't called to the phone because he was known by another name.

On Monday he called several times, but after I hung up on him and didn't want to talk to him he did not call again. He then arrived on Thursday.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you he was coming Thursday?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did you learn that he was using the assumed name of Lee as his last name?

Mrs. Oswald. I know it now, but I did not ever know it before.

Mr. Rankin. Thursday was the 21st. Do you recall that?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And the assassination was on the 22d.

Mrs. Oswald. This is very hard to forget.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband give any reason for coming home on Thursday?

Mrs. Oswald. He said that he was lonely because he hadn't come the preceding weekend, and he wanted to make his peace with me.

Mr. Rankin. Did you say anything to him then?

Mrs. Oswald. He tried to talk to me but I would not answer him, and he was very upset.

Mr. Rankin. Were you upset with him?

Mrs. Oswald. I was angry, of course. He was not angry—he was upset. I was angry. He tried very hard to please me. He spent quite a bit of time putting away diapers and played with the children on the street.

Mr. Rankin. How did you indicate to him that you were angry with him?

Mrs. Oswald. By not talking to him.

Mr. Rankin. And how did he show that he was upset?

Mrs. Oswald. He was upset over the fact that I would not answer him. He tried to start a conversation with me several times, but I would not answer. And he said that he didn't want me to be angry at him because this upsets him.

On that day, he suggested that we rent an apartment in Dallas. He said that he was tired of living alone and perhaps the reason for my being so angry was the fact that we were not living together. That if I want to he would rent an apartment in Dallas tomorrow—that he didn't want me to remain with Ruth any longer, but wanted me to live with him in Dallas.

He repeated this not once but several times, but I refused. And he said that once again I was preferring my friends to him, and that I didn't need him.

Mr. Rankin. What did you say to that?

Mrs. Oswald. I said it would be better if I remained with Ruth until the holidays, he would come, and we would all meet together. That this was better because while he was living alone and I stayed with Ruth, we were spending less money. And I told him to buy me a washing machine, because two children it became too difficult to wash by hand.

Mr. Rankin. What did he say to that?

Mrs. Oswald. He said he would buy me a washing machine.

Mr. Rankin. What did you say to that?

Mrs. Oswald. Thank you. That it would be better if he bought something for himself—that I would manage.

Mr. Rankin. Did this seem to make him more upset, when you suggested that he wait about getting an apartment for you to live in?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He then stopped talking and sat down and watched television and then went to bed. I went to bed later. It was about 9 o'clock when he went to sleep. I went to sleep about 11:30. But it seemed to me that he was not really asleep. But I didn't talk to him.

In the morning he got up, said goodbye, and left, and that I shouldn't get up—as always, I did not get up to prepare breakfast. This was quite usual.

And then after I fed Rachel, I took a look to see whether Lee was here, but he had already gone. This was already after the police had come. Ruth told me that in the evening she had worked in the garage and she knows that she had put out the light but that the light was on later—that the light was on in the morning. And she guessed that Lee was in the garage.

But I didn't see it.

Mr. Rankin. Did she tell you when she thought your husband had been in the garage, what time of the day?

Mrs. Oswald. She thought that it was during the evening, because the light remained on until morning.

Mr. Rankin. Why did you stay awake until 11:30? Were you still angry with him?

Mrs. Oswald. No, not for that reason, but because I had to wash dishes and be otherwise busy with the household—take a bath.

Mr. Rankin. This is a good place for a recess, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. All right. We can take a recess now.

We will recess now for 10 minutes.

(Brief recess.)

The Chairman. The Commission will be in order.

Mr. Rankin?

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, why did the use of this false name by your husband make you so angry? Would you explain that a little bit?

Mrs. Oswald. It would be unpleasant and incomprehensible to any wife if her husband used a fictitious name. And then, of course, I thought that if he would see that I don't like it and that I explained to him that this is not the smart thing to do, that he would stop doing it.