President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Now, the aunt's husband is on a pension, and the uncle's—The uncle is a lieutenant colonel in the Soviet Army.

Mr. Redlich. Now, the aunt and uncle that you say she liked very much, is this the aunt and uncle with whom she was living at the time she met Lee Oswald or is this a different aunt and uncle?

Mr. Martin. That was all very—always confusing to me because she wouldn't call the spouse of the aunt, for instance, her uncle, and I couldn't tell all the time which party she was talking about.

Mr. Dulles. These were both relatives to Marina, therefore, they were not married.

Mr. Martin. Well, no; they were not married to each other.

Mr. Dulles. That is what I mean, yes.

Mr. Martin. There were two couples, and the aunt in one couple and the uncle in the other couple. But she didn't refer to the opposite spouse as an aunt and uncle.

Mr. Redlich. Does the name Berlov refresh your recollection any?

Mr. Martin. Berlov?

Representative Ford. Did Marina ever indicate to you anything about her education, what school she attended?

Mr. Martin. No, just the school of pharmacy, and she compared her grade school or our grade school, which is, I guess similar to our grade school in high school or junior high, anyway.

Representative Ford. She only referred to the pharmacy training?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Representative Ford. As any special training she received?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Representative Ford. But she did discuss that with you?

Mr. Martin. Not at length. Just stated the fact that she had finished pharmacy school.

Representative Ford. But she didn't discuss any other training or schooling of a special nature.

Mr. Martin. No.

Representative Ford. Did she ever discuss any special training that Lee might have had while he was in Russia?

Mr. Martin. No.

Representative Ford. Did she ever discuss Lee's employment while he was in Russia?

Mr. Martin. Only that he was unhappy where he was working.

Representative Ford. Did she tell you where he worked, the kind of work he was doing?

Mr. Martin. I don't know, I have an idea it was in a factory of some kind, whether she told me that or whether it was an assumption, I don't know.

Mr. Redlich. Did she ever discuss their apartment, their living quarters in Minsk?

Mr. Martin. Yes, she said she had a one-room apartment, and had a balcony on it, and that as soon as the baby was born they were going to move to a larger one. I questioned her about that because I understand it is quite difficult to get more than a one-room apartment in Russia and she said, well, Lee was an American and he could get things the Russians couldn't get.

Mr. Redlich. Did Mrs. Oswald give you the impression that in general she and Lee Oswald had better treatment than other Russians?

Mr. Martin. Yes, and actually her past life even before she met Lee seemed a little bit strange to me, going to the opera, taking vacations and holidays as she says. I understand it is quite expensive to go to the opera, and she was making, what did she say, 45 rubles a month, and she would take a girl friend with her when she went to the opera.

Now, how much that cost, I don't know.

Mr. Redlich. Did you ever question her about her financial situation in Russia?

Mr. Martin. I asked her how she could afford it and she said she got by. She was living at home or with her aunt and uncle. So I imagine their expenses there weren't high.

Mr. Redlich. Did she mention any extra income which Lee Harvey Oswald may have had apart from his job?

Mr. Martin. No; I asked her about that specifically because I had heard an account that he was supposed to be getting Western Union money orders, and asked her about that. She didn't know what a Western Union money order was, for one thing, so I reworded the question and asked if he was getting money from anyone else other than where he was working, and she said no.

Mr. Redlich. This was true of this life in the Soviet Union?

Mr. Martin. Yes, apparently.

Mr. Redlich. Did Marina ever discuss with you the uncle with whom she lived who was apparently a lieutenant colonel in the Soviet army?

Mr. Martin. No; except she didn't like him.

Mr. Redlich. Did she say why?

Mr. Martin. No. She preferred her aunt, who has the husband on the pension.

Mr. Redlich. Can you search your memory at this point and tell this Commission anything that you have not yet told us about Marina's conversations with you concerning her life in the Soviet Union?

Mr. Martin. Her aunt used to bring food and liquor home after parties had at the government building where she was working. Other than talking about—she pulled one tooth out before she came to the United States. A tooth was either crooked or broken and she pulled the tooth out. That caused the other one to twist. I don't know what that was.

Representative Ford. Did Marina ever indicate to you while she was in the Soviet Union that she drank beer, wine, liquor?

Mr. Martin. Vodka.

Representative Ford. When she came to the United States, you could observe it, did she drink beer, wine, liquor of any kind?

Mr. Martin. She drank, I guess she drank a bottle of beer every day, and occasionally she would drink some vodka.

Representative Ford. But not a heavy drinker?

Mr. Martin. No.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, have you ever been curious about how Mrs. Oswald was ever able to leave the Soviet Union?

Mr. Martin. Well, I wasn't, until Don Levine brought up the subject. Of course, I have no idea what it entails to get into Russia or out of it as far as that is concerned.

But according to Mr. Levine, it is extremely difficult for people to get out of Russia, especially when they have had the training that Marina has had.

Mr. Redlich. By training you mean what?

Mr. Martin. Pharmacy. He said they spent quite a bit of money on her training, and he doesn't understand how she got out of Russia on such short notice.

Mr. Redlich. Did you ever ask this question of Marina Oswald?

Mr. Martin. She said that Lee arranged it, and that is all she would say.

Mr. Redlich. She never discussed any other aspect of her departure from the Soviet Union?

Mr. Martin. No. Let's see, they were in Moscow, she waited a couple of days while he was, how did she put it, collecting money or getting money together to come over to the States. I have forgotten the name of the hotel they stayed in. She even remarked they had pancakes every morning and she didn't like pancakes.

Mr. Redlich. In terms of her official negotiations to leave the Soviet Union, you asked her nothing other than the question that I have already discussed with you?

Mr. Martin. No, she said that Lee arranged everything.

Mr. Redlich. I would like to ask you a few questions now about some of the individuals that Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald knew in Fort Worth and Dallas, and ask you in each case whether Marina Oswald discussed any of these individuals with you.

The first is George Bouhe.

Mr. Martin. I know the name but I don't think Marina has ever mentioned him; Katya Ford has though.

Mr. Redlich. Are you personally acquainted with George Bouhe?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Could you tell us what Katya Ford has told you about Mr. Bouhe?

Mr. Martin. It was relating to Marina—I think Katya Ford and Bouhe are friends, and they had been discussing Marina all the time she was in seclusion, and wondering what had happened to her, where she was. Now this was after the news was out where she was.

Mr. Redlich. Are you acquainted with——

Mr. Dulles. Excuse me, by "in seclusion", you mean at the time she was with you in your house?

Mr. Martin. Yes, and the press didn't know where she was.