President's Commission on the Assassination of - The Warren Commission (Complete Edition)

Mr. Jenner. And would you identify those fellow workers, please?

Mr. Oswald. If I might——

Mr. McKenzie. I ask you to withdraw that.

Mr. Jenner. All right. You don't like the expression "fellow workers"?

Mr. Dulles. You object to the whole question, or just the way it was phrased?

Mr. McKenzie. Let's rephrase it, Mr. Dulles, if I may, please.

Mr. Jenner. I will yield to you, Mr. McKenzie. Fellow employees.

Mr. McKenzie. That is fine.

Mr. Jenner. You were at lunch with fellow employees of Acme Brick Co.?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Would you please identify those gentlemen?

Mr. Oswald. They are Mr. Bill Darwin, the director of marketing of the Acme Brick Co., Mr. Burnett Henry, director of plants and transportation of the Acme Brick Co., Mr. Bob Oech, who is the Texas division plant manager.

Mr. Jenner. Of Acme Brick Co.?

Mr. Oswald. Of Acme Brick Co.

And Mr. Bud Adams, who is the plant manager of both the old and new Denton plants.

Mr. Jenner. And it was at this time and on this occasion at lunchtime that you first heard any intimation or otherwise of the assassination or attempted assassination of President Kennedy?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir. At the completion of our lunch, as we were departing from the restaurant, as noted in my memorandum, page 1.

Mr. Jenner. Now, you speak on that page of driving in an automobile, either all or some of you gentlemen.

Whose automobile was that?

Mr. Oswald. All of us were in one automobile, and we were in Mr. Burnett Henry's automobile.

Mr. Jenner. And I take it—did the automobile have a radio in it?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; it did.

Mr. Jenner. And did you gentlemen have the radio in operation?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; we did.

Mr. Jenner. And listening to it?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; we were.

Mr. Jenner. Were you listening to anything in particular?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner. What?

Mr. Oswald. We were listening to a newscast of the events that had already taken place in Dallas, Tex., at approximately 12:30 that afternoon.

Mr. Jenner. And you record the time in your notebook?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir—as approximately 1 p.m., sir.

Mr. Jenner. I think we had reached page 6 of your memorandum.

You record on pages 4 and 5—I think towards the bottom of page 4, and the upper portion of page 5—your meeting that day or early evening with Marina and, I believe your mother—but at least Marina.

Is that correct?

In Dallas?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. And just for the purpose of making sure of the record, I gather from your testimony yesterday that this was the first time that you had seen Marina since Thanksgiving Day of 1962?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. And where did this visit take place—where did you meet her on this occasion?

Mr. Oswald. At the Dallas police station.

Mr. Jenner. Did she have either or both of her children with her?

Mr. Oswald. She had both of her children with her.

Mr. Jenner. That would include the infant Rachel?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Were you advised at any time prior to this occasion that her second child had been born to her?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I had not been.

Mr. Jenner. And this was the first information you had on this subject?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Dulles. You probably knew that a child was contemplated.

Mr. Jenner. Well, he might not.

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I wasn't aware of that.

Mr. Jenner. Had you even up to that moment been advised directly or indirectly that Marina had been pregnant, from which pregnancy the child Rachel had been born?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I had not been advised.

Mr. Jenner. Was there an interpreter present at the time you visited with Marina; as I recall your mother was present, also.

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Was there an interpreter there at that time?

Mr. Oswald. There was a Mrs. Paine there, who was acting as an interpreter.

Mr. Jenner. You have now named everybody present—yourself, Marina, and her two children, your mother, yourself, and Mrs. Paine.

Mr. Oswald. With the exception, sir, that there was a police officer, or my assumption that he was a police officer, in the room.

Mr. Jenner. Was he in uniform or plain clothes?

Mr. Oswald. Plain clothes.

Mr. Dulles. Mr. Paine was not there at this time?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir, he was not.

Mr. Dulles. He came later that day, did he?

Mr. Oswald. Just a very few minutes after this meeting.

Mr. Jenner. Mrs. Paine then acted as interpreter between yourself and Marina and between her and others in the party?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Did you say anything in the presence of everybody to her with respect to the birth of her second child, which came as a complete surprise to you?

Mr. Oswald. If memory serves me correct, sir, I did make some type of statement to that effect.

Mr. Jenner. Did you express surprise?

Mr. Oswald. I feel certain that I did, sir.

Mr. Jenner. Do you recall now—you walked into the room, and there was Marina with these others, but with two children, one an infant that you had not seen before. Was it immediately explained to you? Did you inquire as to the identity of the infant? Can you reconstruct that for us?

Mr. Oswald. To the best of my remembrance on that, sir, possibly during the preceding half hour, when I was talking with my mother, she possibly—this I am not clear—advised me of the second child. If she did not, I was, of course, much more surprised when I walked into the room where Marina was holding the infant. I remember looking at the infant, as Marina held the infant, and making some type of comment about whether or not it was a boy or girl and how old it was.

Mr. Jenner. I don't recall this recorded in your memorandum—and it may very well be—that the preceding half hour you had had a meeting or conference with your mother?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. And was that—in whose presence was that conference?

Mr. Oswald. First in the presence of two or three FBI agents, and a Star Telegram reporter, Fort Worth Star Telegram reporter, at the Dallas police station.

Mr. Jenner. Do you record that event in your memorandum?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I do, on page 5.

Mr. Jenner. On page 6 there is a reference, I think I have interpreted your writing, to a Mr. Cummings. Would you find that place on page 6?

Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I have it.

Mr. Jenner. Do I interpret your writing correctly?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct. I believe his name to be a Lieutenant Cummings.

Mr. Jenner. That is what I sought. He was an officer of the Dallas police force?

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. I believe you record on page 6, that Mr. Cummings, Lieutenant Cummings, or some other—well, I don't want to interpret what you do record—but you received a report at that time, according to your memorandum, of the fact of the arrest of your brother, Lee, in connection with the murder of Officer Tippit.

Mr. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Jenner. Is that the first information you had that your brother had actually been arrested in connection with that incident?

Mr. Oswald. No, sir; it was not.

Mr. Jenner. When had you first received information in that respect?

Mr. Oswald. As my prior testimony stated, at the office, at the new Denton plant, when Lee's name was first mentioned, stating that he had been arrested in regards to the shooting to death of a police officer, and possibly the President of the United States.

Mr. Jenner. All right.

Page 7—did you, at the time of the events recorded on page 7, see or request to see your brother, Lee Harvey Oswald?